[From Kenny Kitzke (30.03.2012)]
I changed the subject. I have no desire to continue a discussion of economics, politics or God on the CSG Net. These seem more related to philosophy than to science. I prefer to discuss aspects of PCT science here. Sure, I have opinions on philosophical issues. If anyone on CSG Net wishes to know what they are, I am willing to discuss them privately. I perceive most participants to be more intelligent than myself, so I view dialogue as an opportunity to learn. And, it is a bonus speaking to other PCTers since discussions with even intelligent people who think their actions are determined primarily by their environment seems like a waste of precious, limited human life time.
In this exchange, directed at control and conflict (you raised the God issue which was not specifically mentioned in my post), you have held your own amicably, scientifically and professionally. I respect that and you as a human being. Your post to Rick contrasts his nature. But, I love the guy no matter how obnoxious or insensitive he seems to be at times.
I will respond to a few remarks or questions you made concerning me but, unless they have a PCT continuum, I prefer to move on to other perceptions that enter my life at this stage in my existence.
-
I am not aware of any time where the God I believe in has revoked my free will. I am quite aware that governments, employers, customers, family and neighbors all do often coercively and can lead to both internal and relational conflict. Both God and PCT help me deal with all that and still be at peace and contented with my life.
-
I will share with you a perspective of what God is up to from the Bible. He wrote some commandments with His own “finger” in stone and promised to bless those who promised to obey. I try but don’t do very well as my fallen human nature often leads me astray. Nevertheless, I feel blessed beyond measure. While I perceive that God has intervened in my life, even when I did not like the intervention, it seems to have worked out for my good. The God I believe in can and does do this for His obedient kids. Unfortunately, He does seem to allow suffering (consider His Son) and will eventually judge those who choose to ignore and comply with His authority. When His Kingdom finally comes to this insane-like earth, the problems you desire to solve in politics and economics and hurtful human behavior will be solved. The swords men use for murder will find a universally beneficial use. As a nuclear engineer, I am quite aware of how easily a couple of billion of people can be destroyed in an hour.
-
I spent most of my 68 years pursuing silver, gold and power and competing to win. I was willing to sell my soul for what I thought was right for me. What a terrible illusion that it would give me peace and joy. When my eyes were opened it changed my attitudes, emotions and behavior. It is much better now. I am grateful and surely didn’t figure it all out myself.
-
As far as the economic system, I work in it. I gave up long ago trying to change it. I use my God given creativity to find a way to get by. I pay my taxes though I detest the tax system and what my taxes are used for. I am not trying to gloat, but I tithe (even three of them) and believe I have received far more than I give away to those who are in need and certainly have received more than I really need to live.
-
If there is no afterlife, if the grave is the end, my beliefs and faith are in vain. I accept that and will be no better or worse off than those who are willing to just bring the curtain down after about 70 years and decay into non-existence like a blade of grass or the cardinal sitting outside my window. If there is an afterlife, you might want to pay attention to that possibility. We can’t change what Mary decided. But, you still have breath and a choice to change what you believe and perceive as important to you. That would seem to me to be wise and prudent and just part of your free will. Or, you can just count on your understanding from science or life. It is another choice and its your right to make it. I have made a different choice but only after I realized the futility of my previous perceptions.
-
I too am glad to have you around Bill. The PCT you discovered gives me ways to live that keep me going despite a sometimes severe environment. And, I think you know that MOL has been the most single amazing therapy that has come out of PCT. It is a paradigm shift as the political and economic scientists like to name it. But, so is God. The combination has been important to me. Of course, I am different and unique—and with an autonomous human nature that still defies complete scientific definition and understanding though knowledge does seem to be increasing. Being an engineer, I do relish finding ways to do things, including ways to live contentedly despite the environment I experience.
Well, I have said more than I feel is appropriate on public CSGNet. But, I do say such things to my friends privately. You are one and if it helps in any way, then it will be worth the time. If not, life will move on and hopefully with less rancor and accusations that make conflict and stress so destructive. We have met the enemy, and I suspect we largely agree that he lives between our ears.
In a message dated 3/29/2012 10:37:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, powers_w@FRONTIER.NET writes:
It is clear to me that the God I trust in allows me to be autonomous---and you too. I am not His puppet. It is called free will. I am exercising it just to show that you are right about PCT. Your ideas about control of perception, internal and relational conflict are all right on. Unfortunately, your views about politics and economics have solved nothing that I am aware of in the environment and the record of all human kind has been similarly quite futile. You can reject freedom and contentment. That is your choice. I guess you prefer whining and complaining about the political and economic system and want to improve them based on your adult wisdom. Have at it. They don't bother me none. That is my choice. Anyway, check your conflict meter. I am just disturbing you and testing PCT. How will you behave? I have no desire to control you, Good night and rest in peace. As far as Rickster, he is amazing knowing more about me and God believers and why we do what we do than I do. He is not even capable of being civil as PCTer after PCTer have tasted his venom and leaves the forum. I won't react or leave. I love PCT too much.Hi, Kenny –
Good. Then you can make up your own mind about what is right and wrong, like the rest of us. If I were to believe in a God, I’d like Him to permit me to be autonomous, too. However, that idea of being permitted to be autonomous is uncomfortable – that means the permit could be revoked if I wasn’t careful about what I did with my autonomy, which doesn’t sound like real autonomy to me.
Then what is God waiting for? He knows what has to be done to solve the problems, doesn’t He? Is He trying to teach us a lesson the hard way? Sink or swim? Does He just enjoy watching Us struggle? Excuse me, no capital on “us.”
It’s not freedom and contentment that I reject. It’s the price tag: losing control over my life, which nullifies any freedom and contentment I might be offered. Isn’t that called selling your soul for thirty pieces of silver, or a mess of pottage, or whatever?
I don’t do much whining and complaining about politics and the economic system – not lately, and not compared to what lots of others do. I’ve been trying for a long time to figure out how the economic system we live in works, to see if maybe it could be fixed. What are you doing about it, waiting for God to fix it for you? He’s had a long time to do that, and hasn’t done much more to improve either politics or economics than I have. I’m not sure I can see any signs of error-correction from Above. Well, I guess things are better than they used to be, but I don’t see any signs of genius in the improvements. It looks more like typical debugging of a complex experimental system, by ordinary people who have only a vague idea of what they’re doing.
No conflict about that particular subject. I got over that when I was about 12 or 13, when I finally dared God to strike me dead if he really existed. The answer to that settled the issue for me. Afterward I was pretty mad about letting myself be duped into that pointless act of defiance, though the feelings that arose helped me understand why a lot of people would really be troubled at the idea of doing it. I understand a lot of things about religion – for example I truly understand why people want to believe in an afterlife. There were times in late 2004 when that became poignantly obvious to me.
Good, I like having you around. You don’t have to be like me. You can react any way you like, and I’ll just MOL back at you. You know how that works.
Best,
Bill P.