[From Bob Clark (930416.01:20 PM EDT)]
RE: Info Discussion -- Bill Powers (930411.2330)
Bill, I think we are, in fact, very close indeed. Dividing ideas into
their components -- and naming them -- can be very helpful. Your remarks
relating the old "negentropy system" to your evolving concept of the
"reorganizing system," suggest a need for some form of "intermediate
system." Such a concept can be placed on a continuum, with a "pure
Intrinsic Error driven" system at one end, a "random, arbitrary Curiosity"
system at the other, leaving your evolving reorganizing system to combine
with a "structured memory-using" system -- the DME -- in between.
The "pure Intrinsic Error driven" system operates at a level of
desperation, having been driven beyond organized efforts, and no longer
able to access existing memories. At the same time, the Recording
Function(s) continue to produce records that become available for later
access.
The "Curiosity" system, on the other hand, operates when the individual is
awake, alert and without any immediate actions called for. Perhaps this is
close to a state of "boredom," or perhaps a "standby" condition, waiting
for something to happen. The Recording Function(s) would also (of course)
continue to produce records that become available for later access.
The intermediate system (DME) would be characterized by its use of Memories
as the source of ways to achieve the goals (provided by higher levels),
that are currently dissatisfied. As previously described, it would use
Memories as a guide for the selection of promising actions in seeking the
goals in question. This would include anticipation (via imagination) and
application of learned Problem-solving Programs where they seem useful.
The Memory would also be a source, perhaps resulting from application of
Problem-solving Programs, of reference levels for application throughout
the hierarchy.
Of course, this entire process could be no better than the assortment of
Memories available to the individual at the time they are reviewed. Since
this entire process is recorded together with continuing current
perceptions, the result can be considered a form of "Reorganization," at
least of the Learned Systems.
Your comment, Bill:
I see too much that is systematic and algorithmic in your descriptions of
the DME and what it does. If those were stripped away and assigned to the
learned hierarchy instead, I think our concepts would come much closer
together.
I sympathize with your view here. These "systematic and algorithmic"
aspects are partly due to my difficulty in describing my concept of the
operation of the DME without using language and concepts typical of the
learned hierarchy. I have tried to distinguish between the "pure" DME and
a description of the logical requirements for it to perform as defined.
The suggestion of a "continuum" may be helpful, with "purely learned"
Reorganizing systems supplemented on occasion by action by the DME. This
results in the role of the DME being a bit "mixed" , in the extremes, with
those of the "pure Reorganizing system" and the "Curiosity System." Perhaps
we can devise better ways to describe and distinguish among these concepts.
After all, these verbal systems, as well as theories in general, exist only
in our Memories (and Memory Supplements called Books and Periodicals, etc)!
I hope we can move ahead with this, Bill, because there are several more
areas for discussion.
Regards, Bob Clark
PS -- you may be interested in the developments as I become more involved
with the local city (Forest Park, not Cincinnati). By selecting suitable
time-scales, all aspects of Hierarchical Perceptual Control Systems become
apparent! This includes Intrinsic Error, Learned Systems, Reorganizing
Systems/DME and Curiosity! Fascinating! -- Bob