[From Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00)]
PCT in one page, comments welcome.
···
http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2017/11/23/one-page-pct/
Regards,
Rupert
www.perceptualrobots.com
Twitter LinkedIn
YouTube
+44 7795 480387
Bravo, Rupert! Just what I needed to help explain to newbs.
Joh
···
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: One-page PCT
Local Time: November 23, 2017 12:00 PM
UTC Time: November 23, 2017 10:00 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
[From Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00)]
PCT in one page, comments welcome.
–
Regards,
Rupert
+44 7795 480387
[From Dag Forssell (217.11.23 10.15 PST)]
[Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00)]
Nicely done!
Why not show www.iapct.org as the first website.
Significantly, LINKS points to all the PCT sites.
The ones you list do not.
Dag
[From Fred Nickols (2017.1123.1446 ET)]
I echo Dag, Rupert; nicely done! I will add the link to your one-pager in the PCT section of my web site and I will tout it on some lists.
As we used to say in my Navy days, “Well done.”
Fred Nickols
···
From: Rupert Young [mailto:rupert@perceptualrobots.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 5:01 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: One-page PCT
[From Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00)]
PCT in one page, comments welcome.
http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2017/11/23/one-page-pct/
–
Regards,
Rupert
www.perceptualrobots.com
Twitter LinkedIn YouTube
+44 7795 480387
[From Rick Marken (2017.11.23.1210)]
···
Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00)
PCT in one page, comments welcome.
RM: A very good job. I would just suggest a couple edits:Â
-
I think a slightly better way to say the first sentence is:Â “Departing from conventional wisdom, behaviour is about acting in order to perceive the world as we want it, not about reacting to stimuli or predicting appropriate outputs.”
-
Second sentence of the “Implications” section would be better as "It is not action that is selected or
computed, but it is perception that is controlled,…"
- Change “simplified view of psychology pathology” to “simplified view of psychological pathology”
Best
Rick
–
Richard S. MarkenÂ
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.â?
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I agree with RM’s edits.
Joh
···
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: One-page PCT
Local Time: November 23, 2017 10:10 PM
UTC Time: November 23, 2017 8:10 PM
From: rsmarken@gmail.com
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
[From Rick Marken (2017.11.23.1210)]
Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00)
PCT in one page, comments welcome.
RM: A very good job. I would just suggest a couple edits:
- I think a slightly better way to say the first sentence is: “Departing from conventional wisdom, behaviour is about acting in order to perceive the world as we want it, not about reacting to stimuli or predicting appropriate outputs.”
- Second sentence of the “Implications” section would be better as "It is not action that is selected or
computed, but it is perception that is controlled,…"
- Change “simplified view of psychology pathology” to “simplified view of psychological pathology”
Best
Rick
–
Richard S. Marken
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.â?
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
[From Rick Marken (2017.11.23.1245)]
One more change to the first sentence. How about:
···
“Departing from conventional wisdom, PCT says that behaviour is about acting in order to perceive the world as we want it, not about reacting to stimuli or predicting appropriate outputs.”
Best
Rick
–
Richard S. MarkenÂ
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.â?
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery
[From Bruce Nevin (2017.11.24.40:15 ET)]
Bravo indeed!Â
One more tweak to consider, moving a modifier phrase closer to its referent:
This leads to a minimalist approach to psychotherapy, called the Method of Levels, which encapsulates the general, effective characteristics of all therapeutic approaches.
You might also consider a stronger claim along the lines of “encapsulates what is actually effective in all therapeutic approaches”, though Warren might still demur at being too bold.
The links to videos are well chosen and placed. The description “Perceptual control systems adapt autonomously to real-world
circumstances” very nicely contextualizes the Tiny Dog video. When I saw it last Spring, I thought that it might be somewhat enigmatic to the unprepared youtube visitor. “OK, what exactly is it doing?” This clues us in–“ah, it’s adapting autonomously to the erratic movement of the train car”.Â
···
On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:
[From Rick Marken (2017.11.23.1245)]
One more change to the first sentence. How about:
“Departing from conventional wisdom, PCT says that behaviour is about acting in order to perceive the world as we want it, not about reacting to stimuli or predicting appropriate outputs.”
Best
Rick
–
Richard S. MarkenÂ
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.â?
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery
[From Bruce Abbott (2017.11.25.1735 EST)]
Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00) –
PCT in one page, comments welcome.
http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2017/11/23/one-page-pct/
BA: I like it! However, I do have one quibble, which comes at the end when you say:
The theory indicates a simplified view of psychology pathology as being conflict between internal control systems trying to control the same perceptions at different values. This leads to a minimalist approach to psychotherapy that encapsulates the general, effective characteristics of all therapeutic approaches called Method of Levels.
BA: Control problems can emerge in a variety of ways, not just when control systems come into conflict. One might be trying to achieve impossible goals. One might be using means to achieve certain goals that bring one into conflict with others by acting as disturbances to those others’ controlled perceptions. And so on.
BA: Beyond this, I also have a problem with the idea that all psychological disorders center on control issues. Having once worked as an attendant in a state-run mental hospital, I have had experiences that lead me to believe that mental pathologies may involve distortions of perception (e.g., paranoid delusions), disordered thought processes, disorders of memory, and so on, for which control issues, if present at all, may be only secondary to the primary malfunction. So I would have to say that a knowledge of PCT can help one understand problems that arise from control issues such as conflict, as is done in the MOL, but it is no more an explanation for all psychological pathologies than plaque in the arteries is an explanation for all medical pathologies.
Bruce
[From Bruce Abbott (2017.11.25.1735 EST)]
Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00) –
PCT in one page, comments welcome.
http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2017/11/23/one-page-pct/
BA: I like it! However, I do have one quibble, which comes at the end when you say:
The theory indicates a simplified view of psychology pathology as being conflict between internal control systems trying to control the same perceptions at different values. This leads to a minimalist approach to psychotherapy that encapsulates the general, effective characteristics of all therapeutic approaches called Method of Levels.
BA: Control problems can emerge in a variety of ways, not just when control systems come into conflict. One might be trying to achieve impossible goals. One might be using means to achieve certain goals that bring one into conflict with others by acting as disturbances to those others’ controlled perceptions. And so on.
BA: Beyond this, I also have a problem with the idea that all psychological disorders center on control issues. Having once worked as an attendant in a state-run mental hospital, I have had experiences that lead me to believe that mental pathologies may involve distortions of perception (e.g., paranoid delusions), disordered thought processes, disorders of memory, and so on, for which control issues, if present at all, may be only secondary to the primary malfunction. So I would have to say that a knowledge of PCT can help one understand problems that arise from control issues such as conflict, as is done in the MOL, but it is no more an explanation for all psychological pathologies than plaque in the arteries is an explanation for all medical pathologies.
Bruce
[From Rick Marken (2017.11.26.1415)]
···
Bruce Abbott (2017.11.25.1735 EST)
BA: I like it! However, I do have one quibble, which comes at the end when you say:
The theory indicates a simplified view of psychology pathology as being conflict between internal control systems trying to control the same perceptions at different values. This leads to a minimalist approach to psychotherapy that encapsulates the general, effective characteristics of all therapeutic approaches called Method of Levels.
BA: Control problems can emerge in a variety of ways, not just when control systems come into conflict.Â
RM: I agree. I would suggest the following re-write:
The theory indicates a simplified view of psychological problems as being control problems, the main source of which is conflict between internal control systems trying to control the same perceptions at different values. This leads to a minimalist approach to psychotherapy called Method of Levels that encapsulates the effective characteristics of all therapeutic approaches .
BestÂ
Rick
Â
One might be trying to achieve impossible goals. One might be using means to achieve certain goals that bring one into conflict with others by acting as disturbances to those others’ controlled perceptions. And so on.
Â
BA: Beyond this, I also have a problem with the idea that all psychological disorders center on control issues. Having once worked as an attendant in a state-run mental hospital, I have had experiences that lead me to believe that mental pathologies may involve distortions of perception (e.g., paranoid delusions), disordered thought processes, disorders of memory, and so on, for which control issues, if present at all, may be only secondary to the primary malfunction. So I would have to say that a knowledge of PCT can help one understand problems that arise from control issues such as conflict, as is done in the MOL, but it is no more an explanation for all psychological pathologies than plaque in the arteries is an explanation for all medical pathologies.
Â
Bruce
–
Richard S. MarkenÂ
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery
[From Rupert Young (217.11.27 11.00)]
I favour Warren's site because the breadth of PCT is immediately
more apparent, with the multi-disciplinary tabs, without having to
search around the site for links. People have no patience these
days.
···
Regards,
Rupert
On 23/11/2017 18:13, Dag Forssell
wrote:
[FromDag Forssell (217.11.23 10.15 PST)]
[Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00)]Nicely done! Why not show as the first website.Significantly, LINKS points to all the PCT sites.
The ones you list do not.
Dag
[From Bruce Nevin (2017.11.27.11:04 ET)]
How does the way Little Dog resists disturbances (train table moving) as an inverted pendulum differ from the way Segue resists disturbances (from the rider leaning)? (Ignoring that Segway moves in two dimensions on the plane–a capability that Little Dog could acquire.)
···
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:57 AM, Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com wrote:
[From Rupert Young (217.11.27 11.00)]
I favour Warren's site because the breadth of PCT is immediatelymore apparent, with the multi-disciplinary tabs, without having to
search around the site for links. People have no patience these
days.
Regards,
Rupert
On 23/11/2017 18:13, Dag Forssellwrote:
[FromDag Forssell (217.11.23 10.15 PST)]
[Rupert Young (217.11.23 10.00)]Nicely done! Why not show [www.iapct.org](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.iapct.org&d=DwMCaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=PHBZNRHTGRFarOARf_gMorQq-u8o-HTlZVlJqFzI5rY&s=Bk5OHVFnMsHYKK3aD_Miywi3plmKlyzfC3AVxfOlyAc&e=) as the first website. Significantly, LINKS points to all the PCT sites. The ones you list do not. Dag
[From Rupert Young (2017.11.29 11.10)]
Thanks, all, for suggestions, have updated document.
Rupert
from Fred Nickols 2017.11.29.0945 ET
Is it at the same link as earlier?
Fred
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Rupert Young [mailto:rupert@perceptualrobots.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 6:12 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: One-page PCT
[From Rupert Young (2017.11.29 11.10)]
Thanks, all, for suggestions, have updated document.
Rupert
[From Rupert Young (2017.11.29 15.00)]
···
On 29/11/2017 14:45, Fred Nickols wrote:
From Fred Nickols 2017.11.29.0945 ET
Is it at the same link as earlier?
Yes, One-page PCT – Perceptual Robots
Rupert