Greetings.
Where can I find the most up-to-date list of orders/levels of perceptual
control in humans?
Ted
[From Fred Nickols (2007.08.27.0838 ET)]
From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)
[mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU] On Behalf Of Ted Cloak
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:46 PM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU
Subject: Orders/levels of peceptual control in humansGreetings.
Where can I find the most up-to-date list of orders/levels of perceptual
control in humans?Ted
Try "Introduction to Modern Psychology" edited by Robertson & Powers. In
Chapter 5, "A Hierarchy of Control" (by Powers), the eleven levels listed
are:
System Concept
Principle
Program
Sequence
Category
Relationship
Event
Transition
Configuration
Sensation
Intensity
Regards,
Fred Nickols
Managing Principal
Distance Consulting
nickols@att.net
www.nickols.us
···
-----Original Message-----
Try “Introduction to Modern
Psychology” edited by Robertson & Powers. InChapter 5, “A Hierarchy of Control” (by Powers), the eleven
levels listedare:
System Concept
Principle
Program
Sequence
Category
Relationship
Event
Transition
Configuration
Sensation
Intensity
[From Bill Powers (2007.08.27.0737 MDT)]
Fred Nickols (2007.08.27.0838 ET) –
Also see the appendix in Making Sense of Behavior, where there is a more
recent discussion.
Best,
Bill P.
[From Rick Marken (2007.08..27.0820)]
Bill Powers (2007.08.27.0737 MDT)--
>Fred Nickols (2007.08.27.0838 ET) --
> System Concept
> Principle
> Program
> Sequence
> Category
> Relationship
> Event
> Transition
> Configuration
> Sensation
> Intensity
Also see the appendix in Making Sense of Behavior, where there
is a more recent discussion.
On that note, what do you (or anyone else) think of my observation
regarding conflicts and levels of the hierarchy. Given the "3 level"
view of conflict and the notion that resolution must happen at the 3rd
level up, it looks like conflicts expressed at the principle or system
concept level are either insoluble or can be solved only by e. coli
reorganization. It does seem that conflicts expressed at the principle
or higher level are hard to resolve. Just look at the prevalence of
religious hypocrisy (two words that, as Sinclair Lewis showed in
_Elmer Gantry_ and the Republican party keeps demonstrating today,
taken together define the exact opposite of "oxymoron"
Best
Rick
···
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
Lecturer in Psychology
UCLA
rsmarken@gmail.com
On that note, what do you (or
anyone else) think of my observationregarding conflicts and levels of the hierarchy. Given the “3
level”view of conflict and the notion that resolution must happen at the
3rdlevel up, it looks like conflicts expressed at the principle or
systemconcept level are either insoluble or can be solved only by e. coli
reorganization.
[From Bill Powers (2007.08.27.1040 MDT)]
Rick Marken (2007.08…27.0820) –
I think that’s about right. Remember, though, that I’m toying with the
idea of a 12th level, Kenny’s “spiritual” level, from which we
can observe the 11th level, including conflicts between different system
concepts. We may not know of any place from which we can observe the 12th
level, but when in it, we can see system concepts. How else could we
know we’re perceiving a system concept instead of just seeing them
as if they existed “out there”?
But E. coli reorganization is all that’s left when we’re looking at
system c concepts, since the rational level, where we use logic and
reason things out systematically, is way down at the 9th level. That’s
why philosophy gets so wordy; it’s trying to do something that can’t be
done at that level.
The following relates to some questions that David G. has
raised.
The basic premise of MOL is that people need help when they (a) have no
systematic way of solving a problem, and (b) have failed to solve the
problem by reorganizing, probably because their attention has been
captured by big errors but at too low a level in the hierarchy. The task
of the MOL therapist is to steer awareness to higher-level systems
related to the problem, so reorganization can work more successfully.
When the therapist tries to work by giving advice, solving problems, or
having insights into the explorer’s problems, the explorer is left in the
same condition as before, being aware at too low a level and not
reorganizing at a higher level where he or she could come up with more
relevant insights. The therapist is trying to act in place of the
explorer’s higher levels, with the result that the explorer’s higher
levels are never called upon to reorganize.
What the therapist is called upon to do in MOL is not what most
therapists think they are supposed to do, but it takes a great deal of
skill and understanding to do it without getting in the way. And of
course it forces the therapist even more than the client to get used to
going up a level and not staying stuck at the wrong lower level. Learning
to do MOL therapy is itself a form of MOL therapy.
Best,
Bill P.
[From Fred Nickols (2007.08.27.1302 ET)]
[From Rick Marken (2007.08..27.0820)]
<snip the 11 levels>
On that note, what do you (or anyone else) think of my observation
regarding conflicts and levels of the hierarchy. Given the "3 level"
view of conflict and the notion that resolution must happen at the 3rd
level up, it looks like conflicts expressed at the principle or system
concept level are either insoluble or can be solved only by e. coli
reorganization. It does seem that conflicts expressed at the principle
or higher level are hard to resolve. Just look at the prevalence of
religious hypocrisy (two words that, as Sinclair Lewis showed in
_Elmer Gantry_ and the Republican party keeps demonstrating today,
taken together define the exact opposite of "oxymoron"Best
Rick
Actually, I chuckled when I read your posting. It seemed to me that you identified some kind of fixed upper limit for "going up a level." In terms of the 11 levels, it seems like MOL would encounter severe difficulty in trying to resolve conflict at the principle level. I took your suggested limit to mean that we can't use MOL at the principle and system concept levels. Do I have that right?
···
--
Regards,
Fred Nickols
Managing Principal
Distance Consulting
nickols@att.net
www.nickols.us
"Assistance at A Distance"