AGM : Sorry, one more: Merleau-Ponty’s “The Structure of Behavior”. It is really PCT-like (I would even there it is even more and better than PCT).
HB : Alex I like your confidence and great knowledge when you are on your field. But it seems that sometimes you are walking on the field full of mines. I little take a look of the mentioned book and I’d say it’s more phylosophy of nervous system. It seems that it has little to do with physiological evidences that were provided by Ashby and Powers. So I’d say that »The structure of behavior« is just another book in the raw which is »shooting« into the fog.
But you can enlighten me where exactly do you think Merleau-Ponty is PCT like and where it is better than PCT ??? But I think that you should understand PCT first. Rick did mislead you. When you’ll understand real PCT than you can see how incredible insight he had into human organism (and specially into nervous system).
···
From: Alex Gomez-Marin [mailto:agomezmarin@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 10:15 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Origins
On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com wrote:
Two more real giants are John Dewey and Claude Bernard.
On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com wrote:
[From Alex Gomez-Marin (2016.09.11.2200)]
Thanks for the list, Andrew. Very useful to trace the roots.
If I may add one that is a bit more philosophical, I would include Von Uexkull (the “strolls” book, then there is “a theory of meaning”, and the hard-core “theoretical biology”). A classic for anyone taking organisms seriously, namely, from their own point of view.
On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:
[From Fred Nickols (2016.09.11.1525 ET)]
Hello, Andrew.
To your list you might want to add Living Control Systems by Leonard Bayliss, a Brit, published posthumously in 1966 by W. H. Freeman & Co. You can probably find a copy it on Abebooks – that’s where I got mine.>
from the Preface by A.V. Hill and A.F. Huxley:
“It is no new idea that living organisms contain numerous self-regulating control systems, but we are only beginning to understand the factors that govern the sensitivity, speed of response and stability of these elaborate mechanisms. An immense field still awaits exploration here, both by biologists who acquire a sufficient understanding of the theory of automatic mechanisms that has been developed by engineers, and by people trained as engineers or mathematicians who come to realise what a fascinating variety of ‘living control systems’ are waiting to be investigated.�
Bayliss worked on the control of anti-aircraft guns from 1940-1945 which is the same context in which I came across control systems when I was a fire control technicians in the United States Navy (1955-1974). I rather imagine Bayliss’ book is where Bill Powers got the term “living control systems.�
Fred Nickols
P.S. Note the from-date-time heading I use. Using such a heading is an accepted convention on CSGNet. It helps in tracking threads.
From: Andrew willett [mailto:anwillett@vassar.edu]
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 3:00 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Origins
Hello CSG-ers,
How is everyone? My name’s Andrew Willett. I’m currently a senior at Vassar College, studying Cognitive Science and German, and I am just beginning my undergraduate dissertation, in which I am exploring the value of PCT from a variety of angles (I’ve spent the past 3 years getting to know the theory and collaborating with a few of the folks who have been part of CSGnet–been grateful for these opportunities).
My question is simple: what source(s) influenced PCT’s synthesis most notably? I am aware of some sources, which predated PCT, which are cited in Powers, MacFarland, and Clark (1960)~mentioned below~ [[Dr. Mansell also mentioned LCS III section introductions as well as Powers’ section in The Cognitive Behavioral Therapist (2009) as a possible literature mentioning further influential predating sources]].
However, it is unclear which of these played the biggest role (if one can argue this even~subjective, no?) in Powers-MacFarland-Clark’ early synthesis of the theory. I would love to hear what everyone thinks.
Sources mentioned in Powers, MacFarland, Clark (1960):
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Ashby, W. R. (1952). Design for a brain.
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Frank, L. K. et al. (1948). Teleological mechanisms.
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Fulton, J.F. (1949). Physiology of the nervous system
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Hebb (1954) Brain mechanisms and Consciousness
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Hebb (1949). Organization of Behavior: a Neurophysiological Theory
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Hick & Bates (1950). Human operator of Control Mechanisms
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Korn & Korn (1952). Electronic Analogue Computers.
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Shannon & Weaver (1949). The Mathematical Theory of Communication.
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Soroka (1954). Analogue methods in Computation and Simulation.
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Truxall (1955). Control System Synthesis.
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Wiener (1948). Cybernetics.
Kind Regards,
Andrew