PCT in 2003

[From Rick Marken (2004.12.28.0930)]

2003 may have been a bad year for civilization but it was a good year
for PCT. 2003 was the year of the 30th anniversary celebration of the
publication of B:CP. I was also the year of the very successful 19th
annual CSG Conference. It also a good year for me and PCT. I published
my paper on Rx error in a pretty high impact journal (_Ergonomics_) and
submitted a comment on a fly ball catching paper (still under
consideration) to JEP:HPP.

How was 2003 and PCT for the rest of ye? Any news on the new B:CP?

The way this e-mail is going it looks like 2004 could be a bore.

Happy New Year

Rick

···

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Richard S. Marken
marken@mindreadings.com
Home 310 474-0313
Cell 310 729-1400

from [Marc Abrams (2003.12.28.1246)]

[From Rick Marken (2004.12.28.0930)]

The way this e-mail is going it looks like 2004 could be a bore.

_Nothing_ is as it seems to be. :slight_smile: Look in your e-mailbox Jan 1st.

Marc

[From Stefan Balke (2003.12.29.0030)]

Rick Marken (2004.12.28.0930)

How was 2003 and PCT for the rest of ye?

Hi Rick,

in Germany it`s well-known that the US trends and fashions arrive a number
of years later. Now the nerve-racking "I see you have chosen ..." phrase
arrived in Germany by the recently published book about a quiet close
version of Ed Fords rtp(c) by Bründel & Simon called the
"Trainingsraum-Methode" (remember I call my version
"Trainingsraum-Programm" - Bründel & Simon use the term "Trainingsraum"
without asking me, despite we live just 15 km apart).

The authors introduce some pct-phrases and bowdlerized pct-figures as the
basis of the program. Their book is published by the Beltz-Verlag, which is
leading in the educational domain in Germany. So, a lot of teachers and
educators will now read about pct in a "pop" version. I can`t estimate
whether this is good or not.

They also introduce the rubberband-demo by the means of Dag Forsells figures
and descriptions. Unfortunately the insights from the rubberband-demo are
not transfered to the topic of the book. They strictly recommend the
teachers to use the phrase: "I see you have chosen ...".

I reread about ten or more old posts about this discussion here on csg-net
and think that everything about this phrase has already been said on
csg-net. I really don`t want to make it a topic again her on the net.

I'm now thinking about revisiting my writing about the school discipline
program to make clearer the essential points: trust, fairness and mutual
duties and rights.

In this context I'm puzzeling around your advice:

Rick Marken (01.01.07.1630)

So that's my recommendation: either substitute something like MOL
for the plan writing activity or make the plan writing an integral
part of working with the student to help him or her find a conscious
perspective from which "staying cooperatively in class" can become
one of the goals that can be set without getting into conflict with
any of the student's other goals.

In my understanding the MOL needs an atmosphere of unforced cooperation and
a shared goal. Most students in the RTC are there against their will, they
don't wont to cooperate with the teacher(s).

Would you think that it could be helpful to ask the students more or less
directly concerning their wishes:

"What disturbs you so much, that you can't stay cooperatively in class?"
"What should be changed in order to make it possible for you to stay
cooperatively in class?"

Happy New Year

Rick

Happy New Year to all of you
Stefan

[From Rick Marken (2003.12.28.1650)

Marc Abrams (2003.12.28.1246)--

Rick Marken (2004.12.28.0930)--

The way this e-mail is going it looks like 2004 could be a bore.

_Nothing_ is as it seems to be. :slight_smile:

Perhaps. I hope you noticed that I said "2004 could be a bore" because
"bore" rhymes with "2004" just as "2003" rhymes with "PCT", "ye" and "
B:CP".

Look in your e-mailbox Jan 1st.

I will, indeed.

Happy New Year

Best

Rick

···

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Richard S. Marken
marken@mindreadings.com
Home 310 474-0313
Cell 310 729-1400

[From Bruce Gregory (2003.12.28.2024)]

Stefan Balke (2003.12.29.0030)

In my understanding the MOL needs an atmosphere of unforced
cooperation and
a shared goal. Most students in the RTC are there against their will,
they
don't wont to cooperate with the teacher(s).

Would you think that it could be helpful to ask the students more or
less
directly concerning their wishes:

"What disturbs you so much, that you can't stay cooperatively in
class?"
"What should be changed in order to make it possible for you to stay
cooperatively in class?"

Sounds imminently reasonable and perfectly consistent with PCT to me.

Bruce Gregory

"Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no
one was listening, everything must be said again."

                                                                                Andre Gide

from [Marc Abrams (2003.12.28.2046)]

:slight_smile: See ya on the first

[From Rick Marken (2003.12.28.1650)

Happy New Year

The same to you and yours.

Marc

[From Kenny Kitzke (2003.12.29.0900)]

<Rick Marken (2004.12.28.0930)>

Rick, first, check your post date. RU getting ahead of yourself?

<How was 2003 and PCT for the rest of ye?>

I felt the 2003 Conference was the most encouraging one I ever attended. The 30th Anniversary dinner celebration of B:CP moved my spirit deeply.

Better yet, was the amazing presentations particularly by new attendees from China and Australia. They convinced me that PCT will endure and not die out as an explanation of behavior in future generations. Wonderful experiments and applications were going on without much awareness or tutoring by long-standing CSGNet members and PCT zealots.

And, thank you and your sweet wife for helping structure both the conference and that visit to the Getty Center. I can’t even count how many times it has come up in conversations. And, as recently as last night!

A new neighbor invited us to a party. It turns out they had lived in California (perhaps in several places but I do recall them mentioning San Diego). There house across the street is their 11th house. He was aware of the Getty Center but had not visited there. As I described it, he grew more and more interested and I feel certain the next time they visit California/LA, he will spend a day there. So, your work in 2003 may have effects on people you do not even know, in the tiny town of Delmont, PA in 2004 or even many years later.

Happy New Year to all the PCTers! We are hoping all three sons will be celebrating with us this year.

[From Rick Marken (2003.12.29.1015)]

Stefan Balke (2003.12.29.0030)

Hi Stefan. Nice to hear from you. Happy New Year!

The authors introduce some pct-phrases and bowdlerized pct-figures as the
basis of the program. Their book is published by the Beltz-Verlag, which is
leading in the educational domain in Germany. So, a lot of teachers and
educators will now read about pct in a "pop" version. I can`t estimate
whether this is good or not.

I think it's probably both good and bad.

They also introduce the rubberband-demo by the means of Dag Forsells figures
and descriptions. Unfortunately the insights from the rubberband-demo are
not transfered to the topic of the book.

That's disappointing but not, I'm afraid, surprising. I've rarely seen what
I think are the insights from that demo transferred to many discussions of
PCT applications.

Would you think that it could be helpful to ask the students more or less
directly concerning their wishes:

"What disturbs you so much...

Since you ask "would it be helpful", I would first ask who you are trying to
help by saying these words, the disruptive student or the teacher who is
being disrupted. If you are trying to help the disruptive student, then your
aim should be that this student achieve all his or her goals. The MOL helps
a person achieve these goals when what has been preventing their achievement
is internal conflict. If the disruptive student has no internal conflict
then MOL will be of no help.

If you are trying to help the teacher then, again, MOL with the disruptive
student is of no use since you've already helped the teacher by removing the
disruptive student.

If your aim is to help both student and teacher then you may have a problem
since the goals of the disruptive student and those of the teacher may be in
conflict.

Based on my reading about discipline programs, it seems to me that the
people running the programs do want to help both teachers and disruptive
students. But the bias is clearly in favor of the teacher -- as I think it
should be. The disruptive student is helped only to the extent that this
helping is consistent with the goals of the teacher. So a disruptive student
who achieves his or her goals by returning cooperatively to class is
considered to have been helped. A disruptive student who solves his or her
problem by continuing to be disruptive is considered not to have been
helped, even if the student is happily achieving all his or her goals.

I suggested doing MOL with disruptive kids under the assumption that the
disruptive kid's disruptiveness is actually a side effect of an internal
conflict that can be resolved by MOL. Often this will be the case but
sometimes it won't. But whatever the student's problem is, I think it should
certainly be worked on outside the classroom.

I think the main benefit of the discipline programs I've read about is that
they suggest ways for teachers to control the behavior of disruptive kids
(an inherently conflict producing activity) with a minimum of disruption to
the class. I think this can be a great help to teachers and students. The
only thing I don't like about some of these programs is the attempt to
present them as if they involved no behavior control at all. This is
particularly annoying when the program says its based on PCT since, if there
is anything PCT tells us, it's what control _is_.

Best regards

Rick

···

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Richard S. Marken
MindReadings.com
Home: 310 474 0313
Cell: 310 729 1400

You gave up too soon. Further along in the alphabet 2004
                                             will be glor
                                                     ious

Mary P.

···

At 10:30 AM 12/28/2003, you wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2004.12.28.0930)]

How was 2003 and PCT for the rest of ye? Any news on the new B:CP?

The way this e-mail is going it looks like 2004 could be a bore.

Happy New Year

Rick
---
Richard S. Marken
marken@mindreadings.com
Home 310 474-0313
Cell 310 729-1400

[From Rick Marken (2003.12.29.2110)]

···

On Monday, December 29, 2003, at 05:06 PM, Mary Powers wrote:

You gave up too soon. Further along in the alphabet 2004
                                            will be glor
                                                    ious

Yes. It might also be a roar. Or a score. It might soar (or be sore)
and in 2005 it will be yore. But whatever it is, it will definitely be
'04.

Love

Rick
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Richard S. Marken
marken@mindreadings.com
Home 310 474-0313
Cell 310 729-1400