...PCT instructional design...

[From Chris Cherpas (970130.1831 PT)]
  [re Bill Powers (970130.1645 MST)]

Chris Cherpas (970130.1155 PT) wrote:

Mr. PCT: It _is_ your job to provide some examples if you want the
rest of us lazy bums to do the right thing.

BP:

Provide some examples of what, Chris?

cc:
Examples of on-line exercises, along the lines of the PCT demos,
only with the intent of a user acquiring the ability to
control a variable they hadn't controlled before -- one which
might even be recognized as something kids learn in school.

BP:

When you speak of the "core group of expert PCTers," I wonder what picture
goes through your mind.

cc:
Increasingly, a group of people who have nothing to contribute to
education.:wink:

BP:

What's needed, of course, are people who DO have laboratories, or
institutional support, and the means of conducting research into the
application of PCT to real-world problems like education.

cc:
OK, I've got that.

BP:

You have to get experience with how things work in a classroom...

cc:
Fuck the classroom, man. The PCT demos didn't require a room.
Just a _computer_. That's exactly where educational research is
happening. Forget the classroom!

BP:

Certainly, I would trust you to write instructions from a PCT perspective.

cc:
Well, flattery will get me off your back at least.

BP:

Who else is there to do it, but people on CSGnet who have experience in
education? At this very second, I wouldn't trust anyone to write them
correctly, especially myself, but you have to try out ideas before you can
see where they need fixing. That's the bootstrap process called basic
research, and there's no substitute for it.

cc:
OK. I've got the message and my mission. Thanks, although I take
the "especially myself" line as a bold-faced lie. That's OK. The reason
I was griping, I repeat, is that there's been more than just a footnote
or two written by promoters of PCT claiming that PCT is a better way to
approach education, so I thought I could might be pointed to an existing
example of a design to work from.

...I'll get back to you in about a year. Thanks everybody who responded.

But, by the way, the "instruction" manual is more of a "direction" manual:
if you acquire anything from such materials of a *general* nature (which
_is_ the essence of education, friends) it is incidental, not designed.
Or would someone like to argue that having gone through the manual to
"put tab A into slot A" for the bicycle enabled them to not require a manual
the next time they had to assemble a hobby-horse?

Best regards,
cc
My motto for this post: "No meaner than Rick"

[From Bill Powers (970130.2010 MST)]

Chris Cherpas (970130.1831 PT)--

cc:
Examples of on-line exercises, along the lines of the PCT demos,
only with the intent of a user acquiring the ability to
control a variable they hadn't controlled before -- one which
might even be recognized as something kids learn in school.

Sounds like you're pretty pissed off at me for not having a program I can
pick off the shelf and hand to you. The service is pretty lousy at this
store, isn't it?

BP:

When you speak of the "core group of expert PCTers," I wonder what
picture goes through your mind.

cc:
Increasingly, a group of people who have nothing to contribute to
education.:wink:

Right, as long as we both agree that PCT is not going to generate knowledge
about a specific field like education all by itself.

BP:

What's needed, of course, are people who DO have laboratories, or
institutional support, and the means of conducting research into the
application of PCT to real-world problems like education.

cc:
OK, I've got that.

Are you going to use it to do research in applying PCT to education? Or just
to get an edge in a commercial venture? (Sorry, I don't really mean that).

BP:

You have to get experience with how things work in a classroom...

cc:
Fuck the classroom, man. The PCT demos didn't require a room.
Just a _computer_. That's exactly where educational research is
happening. Forget the classroom!

Well, one needs a few bodies, at least, doesn't one? I didn't work out the
PCT demos with nothing but a computer. I had real people running those
experiments for several years before I tumbled to the simple model that we
now use for tracking experiments. That stuff didn't come out of pure reason.

BP:

Certainly, I would trust you to write instructions from a PCT perspective.

cc:
Well, flattery will get me off your back at least.

That was a very intelligent, perceptive and altogether admirable thing to
say, although only to be expected from a scientist of your caliber (or calibre).

BP:

Who else is there to do it, but people on CSGnet who have experience in
education? At this very second, I wouldn't trust anyone to write them
correctly, especially myself, but you have to try out ideas before you
can see where they need fixing. That's the bootstrap process called basic
research, and there's no substitute for it.

cc:
OK. I've got the message and my mission. Thanks, although I take
the "especially myself" line as a bold-faced lie.

I could probably do pretty good job of educational research if I came to
your place and were given a free hand (including NOT having to assume as a
condition of employment that computers were the way to go). And if that were
all I wanted to do for the next five years. And if I could maintain the
energy level required. And a lot of other unlikely things. You don't seem to
realize, Chris, that I am an old man. Your faith is pleasing, in a way, but
the implied demands frighten me. What I am doing now, mainly, is trying to
pass the torch. Don't ask more of me. Take whatever I have to offer and do
what you will with it -- just don't demand that I do it for you. I can't.
The future of PCT is no longer in my hands. It's in yours.

Best,

Bill P.