PCT Publications, ETC

Richard_Marken2 · March 9, 2001, 10:52pm

[From Rick Marken (01.03.09.1450)]

Stefan Balke (01.03.09)--

I'm now curious what ranks do other basics textbooks like
for example Seligmans books have?

It looks like Seligman has some pretty hot sellers. His best-
selling book, on Optimism, is ranked about 4000 and he has
another at 8000. I saw a best selling book on cognitive
psychology at about 40,000. I think that books as rigorous
as BCP or MR (and even MSB) would be doing very well if they
cracked a sales rank of 50,000.

For those of you who are interested (I know this includes
Bjoern Simonsen) the Search function at the CSG site
(http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/csg/search.html) has been fixed.

Also, information about the European PCT Workshop has been
posted at the CSG website (http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/csg).

Isn't it interesting how little there is to talk about on
CSGNet anymore.

Best regards

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
MindReadings.com mailto: marken@mindreadings.com
www.mindreadings.com

Stefan_Balke1 · March 11, 2001, 10:01pm

[From Stefan Balke (01.03.11)]

Rick Marken (01.03.09.1450)

Isn't it interesting how little there is to talk about on
CSGNet anymore.

Rick,
that doesn't mean that there is no activity in the background

I finished my translation of Bill's PCT intro text. My next task is to show
a typical social interaction with two and three persons (LCS) in a control
system block-diagram style. I puzzle around the question how to combine the
LCS. In the original example there exists an envirenmental function which
represents the physical properties of an object (a car) - there is no other
person involved. Would it be appropriate to connect the output function of
one person with the input of the other person? What about the envirenmental
function in the setting of a direct cummunication? Can it be omited? What
about the disturbance? They are described as independent variables. In a
direct communication it doesn't seem to make sense to think about
independent actions, because the listener (more or less) reacts to the
talker.

The more I muse about it, I loose the impression of closed loop control
systems and variables being under control in the context of a social
interaction.

Are there already block diagrams of social interactions in any PCT
publication? Please tell me!

Best regards,
Stefan

Richard_Marken2 · March 12, 2001, 5:51am

[From Rick Marken (01.03.11.2150)]

Stefan Balke (01.03.11)--

I finished my translation of Bill's PCT intro text.

Excellent. Maybe it will work better in Germany. The US seems
to be moving backwards intellectually, which in itself is not so
bad except that we seem to be rushing right past the Enlightenment
into the Middle Ages.

My next task is to show a typical social interaction with two
and three persons (LCS) in a control system block-diagram style.
...Would it be appropriate to connect the output function of
one person with the input of the other person?

You can connect the output _variable_ to the _controlled_ input var-
iable. I think the most common situation is where the outputs of each
system influence the variable controlled by the other. There is a
diagram of this situation in Tom Bourbon's article in the _American
Behavioral Scientist_ (1990,vol. 34, p. 98). In that diagram, two
different people control two different variables (the positions of
two different cursors). The actions used by each person to control
their cursor are also a disturbance to the other person's cursor.

What about the envirenmental function in the setting of a direct
cummunication?

A communication (like me saying something) is just an external
influence on the state of another person's perception; that is, it's
a disturbance. So the environmental function that must be included
is the one connecting the disturbance variable (what is said) to
the controlled perceptual input variable (what is heard).

What about the disturbance?

In an interaction, disturbances come from the inanimate _and_ from
the animate environment. The latter is the control system with which
you are interacting. When I talk to you my words are a (potential)
disturbance variable because they are in the external environment; so
I am an _animate_ source of disturbances. Disturbances also come from
other parts of the environment. For example, a relevant disturbance
may be the noise of the wind. Both of these disturbances may have an
influence on a perception you are controlling, such as the perception
of the words I am saying. You also can have an effect on this per-
ception by moving close to me, turning your ear towards me, etc.
These are your outputs which, when combined appropriately with the
effects of the disturbances (me talking and the wind blowing),
influence the state of the perception you are controlling (hearing
the words I say).

In a direct communication it doesn't seem to make sense to think
about independent actions, because the listener (more or less)
reacts to the talker.

Yes. The listener "reacts" to disturbances to controlled variables
that are created by the talker. It's true that some of these
disturbances are caused by the listener himself, in the sense
that they are outputs from the talker that are aimed at protecting
a controlled variable from disturbances from the listener. But the
listener doesn't deal with these disturbances differently than
those that are truly independent of the listener's actions. The
listener has no idea that he is, to some extent, the cause of some
of the things the talker is doing that are disturbing the variables
controlled by the listener.

The more I muse about it, I loose the impression of closed loop
control systems and variables being under control in the context
of a social interaction.

Don't lose it! When a closed loop control system interacts with
other closed loop control systems it's still closed loop control
on the part of each individual system.

Are there already block diagrams of social interactions in any PCT
publication? Please tell me!

See the above referenced article by Tom Bourbon.

Best regards

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: marken@mindreadings.com
mindreadings.com

Stefan_Balke1 · March 12, 2001, 10:56pm

[From Stefan Balke (01.03.12)]

Rick Marken (01.03.11.2150)

See the above referenced article by Tom Bourbon.

Rick, thanks for the comments and the source. I will ask Tom for a copy of
the article. Meanwhile I designed my diagram in a general and in a classroom
related version, which is attached. I hope it makes sense. Criticisms are
welcome.

Best regards,
Stefan

Attachment Converted: "d:\data\email\Attach\socia.gif"
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`
end

Richard_Marken2 · March 13, 2001, 10:06pm

[From Rick Marken (01.03.13.1400)]

Stefan Balke (01.03.12)--

Rick, thanks for the comments and the source. I will ask Tom for
a copy of the article. Meanwhile I designed my diagram in a
general and in a classroom related version, which is attached.
I hope it makes sense. Criticisms are welcome.

Great. Here are some comments (not criticisms; you did great work)
on the diagram.

First, I think it's important to be relatively clear about the
variables each party to the interaction is controlling. In your
diagram, the teacher is controlling a perception of "what the
student does". This is pretty vague. Since the input quantity
controlled by the teacher is a function of student disruptions,
I would say that the teacher is controlling for the disrupt-
iveness of the student. If this is the case, then the "teacher's"
goal must be with respect to this variable; the teacher has
some reference for the level of student disruptiveness.

The diagram shows that the teacher acts to control for a reference
level of disruptiveness by saying things to the student. What the
teacher says (the teacher's output) is a disturbance to what the
student perceives the teacher doing. Again, I think you should
be more specific about what perception the student control system
is controlling. One possibility is that the student is controlling
for some reference level of "scolding" from the teacher. In this
case, the student's goal must be with respect to this variable;
the student has some reference for the level of scolding perceived.

So here we have a situation where the teacher and student are
trying to control the actions (outputs) of the other. The teacher
controls a perception that is a function of the student's output:
disruptiveness. The teacher does this by applying disturbances
to a variable the student is controlling: level of scolding. The
student controls a perception that is a function of the teacher's
output: scolding. The student does this by applying (or with-
holding) disturbances to a variable the teacher is controlling:
disruptiveness.

This kind of mutual controlling type of interaction can work as
long as both parties to the interaction are controlling variables
that allow it to work. The teacher, for example, can control the
student's disruptiveness as long as the student is controlling
for being scolded. If the student doesn't care whether or not
the teacher scolds (the student is not controlling for scolding)
then the teacher can't control the student's disruptiveness by
varying the level of scolding. Similarly, the student can't
control the teacher's scolding if the teacher doesn't care
whether or not the student disrupts (the teacher is not control-
ling for disruptiveness).

Of course, you have diagrammed only one kind of interaction,
one that is probably fairly realistic. But there are certainly
other kinds of interactions where the links between the two
actors can be quite different than what you've shown. For
example, a far more common interaction than the one you show
is one where the the outputs of each actor disturb the inputs
controlled by the other. But these effects are not in the
main path of each control loop; they are just side effects.
That is, the disturbing outputs are not one or another
system's attempt to control it's own inputs. You could show this
in your diagram by adding a connection for each control system's
output to it's _own_ input. that is, add an arrow going from the
teacher's output to the teacher's input; and add an arrow from
the student's output to the students input. Of course, both
input quantities would also have to be changed. The perception
controlled by the teacher might be the teacher's respectfulness
toward the student and the perception controlled by the student
might be acceptance of the student by the teacher. These two
perceptions depend on the outputs of the system itself as well
as the outputs of the other system and your revised graph would
show this dependency.

Best regards

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
MindReadings.com mailto: marken@mindreadings.com
www.mindreadings.com