[From Bjorn
Simonsen (2004.10.29,09:50 EST)]
From Bruce
Gregory (2004.1028.2044)
Actually you
answered the question when you said, "You see someone
standing at
a front door with their finger on a button." That’s what I
am talking
about. We can speculate endlessly on why they are doing
that, but we
must start by agreeing that that is what they are doing.
How do we
recognize what the person is doing? Is this a control
process? If
so, what is the perceptual signal and what is the reference
level?
No. I can perceive
something quite unexpected (a cow flying) and still
identify
what I am seeing (a cow flying).
Let me start
with your sentence: “We can speculate endlessly on why they are doing
that, but we must
start by agreeing that that is what they are doing”.
This is a
central section in B:CP page 155. What the one standing at a front door with
her finger on a button is doing is an effect of her references and her
perceptions. What you think, she is doing is dependent on your references and
your perceptions. I don’t think we can agree upon what she is doing, but you
can agree with yourself what you think she is doing.
Then over to
your three last sentences. I think we shall be respectful and agree that the
best way to recognize what the person is doing is to ask her. You can also do
the test in other ways. But there is always a possibility that what she answers
or what the test tells us is wrong. Of course, asking what she is doing or
doing the test is a control process.
If you don’t ask
or if you don’t do the test, you maybe just speculate what she is doing. What
is that? Let us do an experiment.
Close your eyes.
Imagine a lady with a red dress and a black hat standing at the front door with
her finger on a button. Stop. Imagine an old bareheaded man standing at the
front door with his finger on a button. Stop. Imagine a little boy with a storm
suit standing at the front door knocking at the door. Stop. Imagine nobody
standing at the front door. Open your eyes. Now you switched to the
present-time position. Your outputs from your last imagining mode are
references for your lower levels. At the different levels there are produced
errors that result in some or none actions.
Your thinking
has little to do with what the lady is doing.
With open eyes
imagine a cow flying outside your front door at the same time as a car is
moving down the street. See. You can imagine something unexpected at the same
time you perceive the car. Imagining and remembering happens all the time. When
your perceptions are different from your references you do something. If there
is no difference, the error is zero and the output is zero and you are not
conscious what you perceive. Consciousness is dependent on outputs different
from zero. If you go back to imagining mode you can bring about an output. And
you are conscious what you imagine.
This is the way
I see it.
bjorn