(Gavin
Ritz 2011.11.06.10.41NZT)
Hi
Can anyone send me to the appropriate
documents (books) on the key propositions(s) of PCT?
I’m looking at a whole bunch of
theories and comparing them to each other. I want the original proposition of
the theory.
I have been through a few books but I just
can’t find them. (a page or chapter no# would be great thanks).
Regards
Gavin
[From Rick Marken (2011.11.05.1740)]
Gavin Ritz (2011.11.06.10.41NZT)
GR: Can anyone send me to the appropriate documents (books) on the key
propositions(s) of PCT?
I�m looking at a whole bunch of theories and comparing them to each other. I
want the original proposition of the theory.
RM: How about sending what you see as the "propositions" of the
theories to which you are comparing PCT because I'm not sure I know
what a "proposition" of a theory is. If pressed, I would say that
there is only one proposition of PCT: Behavior is the control of
perception. I would just add: that is all ye know on earth, and all
ye need to know (apologies to John Keats).
Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
www.mindreadings.com
(gavin Ritz 2011.11.06.16.00NZT)
[From Rick Marken
(2011.11.05.1740)]
Gavin Ritz (2011.11.06.10.41NZT)
GR: Can anyone send me to the appropriate
documents (books) on the key
propositions(s) of PCT?
I’m looking at a whole bunch of theories
and comparing them to each other. I
want the original proposition of the theory.
RM: How about sending what you see as the
“propositions” of the
theories to which you are comparing PCT because I’m
not sure I know
what a “proposition” of a theory is.
A proposition is a declarative
statement that the theory goes out to prove either true or false. There may be
a few propositions. In other words the key tenets of the theory.
The theory goes out to
prove these key propositions with evidence, tests, modelling, and observational
corroboration etc.
If pressed, I would say that
there is only one proposition of PCT: Behavior is the
control of
perception.
Okay thank you
I would just add: that is all ye know on earth,
and all
ye need to know (apologies to John Keats).
Is this another
proposition of PCT or is this just you pulling my leg. Because it may be a proposition
“PCT is all you need to know about behaviour
and no other theories are required.” is very much a
proposition.
Should this be added as a
proposition?
Could one add these,
And “organisms
control perceptual input, not motor output”
And “this specific
control system acts to keep perceptions matching references of what perceptions
should be?”
And “Behaviour of a living
control system is the control of perception, not action”
The feedback model is
very much specific to PCT and no other theory, right?
Would you say that PCT
has proved these propositions to be true? (I’m not interested in my
opinions here, but list members opinions)
That is if you regard
some of those declarative statements to be an appropriate description of its
propositions.
Kind regards
Gavin
(gavin Ritz 2011.11.06.17.06NZT)
[From Rick Marken (2011.11.05.1740)]
Gavin Ritz (2011.11.06.10.41NZT)
I’m not sure I know what a “proposition” of
a theory is.
GR: Here is something more to
aid you.
physics**
All our description of world is represented
by propositions. This epistemological structure is not a matter of our choice.
Rather, it is a necessity that is behind all our attempts to extract meaning
whatsoever out of our observations. The simplest proposition is an answer to a
single yes-or-no question. It is impossible to imagine a more elementary
proposition.
A. Zeilinger, A foundation principle of quantum physics
Found. Phys. 29,
631-643 (1999).
The propositional calculus
is a formal deduction system whose atomic formulas are propositional variables.
(Compare this to the predicate calculus which
is quantificational and whose
atomic formulas are propositional functions, and modal logic which may be
non-truth-functional.)
A calculus is a logical system which is used to prove valid
formulas (i.e. its theorems) and arguments. It is a set of axioms (which may be
an empty or countably infinite set) or axiom schemata, and inference rules for deriving valid inferences.
A formal grammar (or syntax) recursively defines the
expressions and well-formed formulas (wffs) of the language. In addition a semantics is given which defines truth and
valuations (or interpretations). It allows us to determine which wffs are valid
(i.e. theorems). http://www.chemistrydaily.com/chemistry/Propositional_logic
Biology
cell theory,
the proposition that
cells are the basic units of all living tissues or organisms and that cellular
function is the essential process of living things.
Mosby’s Medical
Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.
(Gavin
Ritz 2011.11.07.9.58)
(gavin Ritz 2011.11.06.16.00NZT)
[From Rick Marken
(2011.11.05.1740)]
Ø
Gavin Ritz (2011.11.06.10.41NZT)
Is there no interest in
this on the list?
Regards
Gavin
GR: Can anyone send me to the
appropriate documents (books) on the key
propositions(s) of PCT?
I’m looking at a whole bunch of
theories and comparing them to each other. I
want the original proposition of the
theory.
RM: How about sending what you see as the
“propositions” of the
theories to which you are comparing PCT
because I’m not sure I know
what a “proposition” of a theory
is.
A proposition is a declarative statement that the theory goes out
to prove either true or false. There may be a few propositions. In other words
the key tenets of the theory.
The theory goes out to prove these key propositions with evidence,
tests, modelling, and observational corroboration etc.
If pressed, I would say that
there is only one proposition of PCT:
Behavior is the control of
perception.
Okay thank you
I would just add: that is all ye know
on earth, and all
ye need to know (apologies to John Keats).
Is this another proposition of PCT or is this just you pulling my
leg. Because it may be a proposition “PCT
is all you need to know about behaviour and no other theories are
required.” is very much a proposition.
Should this be added as a proposition?
Could one add these,
And “organisms control perceptual input, not motor
output”
And “this specific control system acts to keep perceptions
matching references of what perceptions should be?”
And “Behaviour of a living control system is the control of perception,
not action”
The feedback model is very much specific to PCT and no other
theory, right?
Would you say that PCT has proved these propositions to be true?
(I’m not interested in my opinions here, but list members opinions)
That is if you regard some of those declarative statements to be an
appropriate description of its propositions.
Kind regards
Gavin
[From Rick Marken (2011.11.06.1400)]
Gavin Ritz (2011.11.07.9.58)�--
GR: Is there no interest in this on the list?
RM: Well, speaking just for myself (not the list) I lost interest when
you said:
GR: A proposition is a declarative statement that the theory goes out to prove
either true or false. There may be a few propositions. In other words the
key tenets of the theory.
This has nothing to do with how I think science works. Science is not
about proving propositions true or false; it's about testing theories
to see which one provides the best fit to all the data. The theory
that fits the data best is not proven true; it is just the current
best explanation of what we observe. PCT is not proven true because it
accounts for the data better than other theories; it is simply the
current best explanation of the controlling done by living control
systems.
Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
www.mindreadings.com
(gavin ritz 2011.07.11.11.116)
[From Rick Marken
(2011.11.06.1400)]
Gavin Ritz (2011.11.07.9.58) –
GR: Is there no interest in this on the list?
RM: Well, speaking just for myself (not the list) I
lost interest when
you said:
GR: A proposition is a declarative statement that
the theory goes out to prove
either true or false. There may be a few
propositions. In other words the
key tenets of the theory.
This has nothing to do with how I think science works.
Science is not
about proving propositions true or false;
This has everything to do
with how science and maths comes together to form theory.
it’s about testing theories
to see which one provides the best fit to all the
data.
Okay, so that’s
saying almost the same thing. You have a propositional statement; you then
collect data and show that for that particular proposition the data fits the observational
data, and other evidence. Therefore for that particular proposition “a
truth” is formed.
The theory
that fits the data best is not proven true;
In all mathematical logic
that is exactly what is done “ it’s not “the truth” it’s
“ a truth”. Mathematics has specific axioms where fitted data is
proven true.
I’m not talking
about a religious truth, I talking about strict mathematical principles here.
it is just the current
best explanation of what we observe.
Then that proposition is
proved to be a “truth”
PCT is not proven true
Well the axioms of PCT
can be proved to be mathematical and observational true, and they have been in
many of the propositions put forward.
because it
accounts for the data better than other theories;
Then mathematically it
can be deemed to be true, under the circumscribing of the propositions put forward.
Regards
Gavin
it is simply the
current best explanation of the controlling done by
living control
systems.
Best
Rick