Questions about models and prediction

CSGnet Archive CSG1998
1

[From Rick Marken (980105.1020)]

francisco arocha (980105; 12.45 EST) --

can we think as control in imagination as model based control?

Well, if I get to make the rules about what we think then I
say "yes":wink:

Can we think of an imagined perception as a model of the world?

I do. PCT is an imagined perception for me -- and it's a model
of the functional (and structural) organization of the system
that produces the purposeful behavior we observe.

As you correctly noted, the problem with "model-based" control is not
"models"; it's the idea that the outputs that keep variables under
control are generated _on the basis of models_ of the environment
in which this controlling occurs. In PCT we like models, a lot! Models
are what science is about. But most controlling -- except some very
high level kinds like "doing science" or "doing engineering" -- is not
based on models; it is based solely on control of perception (at
least, as far as we can tell from experimental test -- a model-based
approach to the study of controlling with which, rather ironically,
Hans would have no truck).

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken

2

[From Bruce Gregory (980106.1243 EST)]

Rick Marken (980105.1020)

In PCT we like models, a lot! Models
are what science is about. But most controlling -- except some very
high level kinds like "doing science" or "doing engineering" -- is not
based on models; it is based solely on control of perception (at
least, as far as we can tell from experimental test -- a model-based
approach to the study of controlling with which, rather ironically,
Hans would have no truck).

I suspect that much of what you perceive as a hostility to PCT
is based on a simple inability to understand what a model is
and how it works. Outside of physics and engineering there seems
to be little use and even less understanding of the relationship
between models and what they are designed to explain. (Certain
aspects of economics are an exception.) Working models such as
your spreadsheet representation of HPCT are almost totally
lacking.

If I'm mistaken, I have every confidence that someone will draw
this to my attention...

Bruce