Recent CogSci paper

Members of the Group may be interested in the following recently published
paper ...

Leotti, L. A., Iyengar, S. S., & Ochsner, K. N. (2010). Born to choose: the
origins and value of the need for control. Trends in Cognitive Sciences,
14(10), 457-463.

Belief in one's ability to exert control over the environment and to produce
desired results is essential for an individual's wellbeing. It has
repeatedly been argued that perception of control is not only desirable, but
is also probably a psychological and biological necessity. In this article,
we review the literature supporting this claim and present evidence of a
biological basis for the need for control and for choice-that is, the means
by which we exercise control over the environment. Converging evidence from
animal research, clinical studies and neuroimaging suggests that the need
for control is a biological imperative for survival, and a corticostriatal
network is implicated as the neural substrate of this adaptive behavior.

... no mention of PCT though :frowning:

···

________________________________________________________________

Prof ROGER K MOORE BA(Hons) MSc PhD FIOA FISCA MIET

Chair of Spoken Language Processing
Vocal Interactivity Lab (VILab)
Speech & Hearing Research Group (SPandH)
Department of Computer Science, UNIVERSITY OF SHEFFIELD
Regent Court, 211 Portobello, Sheffield, S1 4DP, UK

e-mail: r.k.moore@dcs.shef.ac.uk
web: http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/~roger/
Tel: +44 (0) 11422 21807
Fax: +44 (0) 11422 21810
Mob: +44 (0) 7910 073631

Editor-in-Chief: COMPUTER SPEECH AND LANGUAGE
(http://ees.elsevier.com/csl/)
________________________________________________________________

[From Bill Powers (2010.10.03.1330 MDT)]

Leotti, L. A., Iyengar, S. S., & Ochsner, K. N. (2010). Born to choose: the
origins and value of the need for control. Trends in Cognitive Sciences,
14(10), 457-463.

Belief in one's ability to exert control over the environment and to produce
desired results is essential for an individual's well being.

BP: How about actual control being even more important?

RM: It has repeatedly been argued that perception of control is not only desirable, but is also probably a psychological and biological necessity. In this article, we review the literature supporting this claim and present evidence of a biological basis for the need for control and for choice-that is, the means by which we exercise control over the environment.

BP: Choice, I contend, is necessary only when there is a conflict. And perception of control is probably not very important to a mouse, though actual control certainly is. This sounds like a descendant of Susan Langer's "illusion of control."

RM: Converging evidence from
animal research, clinical studies and neuroimaging suggests that the need
for control is a biological imperative for survival, and a corticostriatal
network is implicated as the neural substrate of this adaptive behavior.

BP: "Implicated," is it? I love those words that claim knowledge when there isn't actually any. I won't argue that the brain isn't implicated in control, but I would like to know a little more than that. Do the authors say what they mean by the word "control?"

Haven't seen you name on a post for a long time. What's going on in your life?

Best,

Bill P.

···

At 05:19 PM 10/3/2010 +0100, Prof Roger K Moore wrote:

From Bjorn Simonsen (2010.10.08, 08:55 EUST)]
Prof Roger K Moore ca. 2010.08.03

Leotti, L. A., Iyengar, S. S., & Ochsner, K. N. (2010). Born to choose: the
origins and value of the need for control. Trends in Cognitive Sciences,
14(10), 457-463.

Belief in one’s ability to exert control over the environment and to produce
desired results is essential for an individual’s wellbeing.

This sentence is the first in the abstract from the article above. I will not read the article because of this sentence and I will try to explain why.

I think people and other organisms that have a brain are able to receive variables from beyond the brain and change them in the sensory cells into nerve signals that move from there along dendrites, nerve cells and axions to different locations in the brain (afferent neurons). (also efferent nerve signals).

I think that we cannot see (or sense in other ways) anything outside of our sensory cells without using nerve signals. No nervesignals leads to no perceptions. If I look at a tree, the tree I see is a result of nerve signals.Perception of the tree is in this simple case my representation of something outside the sensory cells. I don’t think anybody are able express what the variables that affect our sensingcells really are.
Many people say that the variables that affect their sensingcells have a one-to-one relationship to what we perceive and they talk about the extern world as if it is just what they perceiv. That is OK if they agree, but they are still aware of their perceptions. The one-to-one relationship is an imagination that they also perceive.

I think that the only way we can exercise control is to control our perceptions. We have no ability to exert control over our environment. Therefore we cannot produce disired results for an individual wellbeing by controlling our environment.

bjorn

···

Bjorn,

It is important that we appreciate the other side of the equation because it is not the other side that is so important as attaining the shared space between the sides. In other words, it is a process of stretching or decentering which, when you have control over it, makes life as we know it exponentially simpler and more meaningful. This shared space is the origin from which our values, principles, and meaning itself emanates.

All: Speaking of meaning making, I am beginning to see a pattern in my triangulation of the meaning of the word "perception". For example, the winner of the 2010 Jean Nicod Prize, UCLA's Tyler Burge, states at the beginning of his lecture series entitled Thresholds of Reason, that "perception is the most primitive form of representational mind": http://www.institutnicod.org/lectures2010_outline.htm ....

Don't get me wrong. I have a copy of the PCT hierarchy taped to my computer monitor as I refer to it often to make sense of my program evaluation work, primarily at levels 9 and higher. However, I find the word "perceptual" or "levels of perception" in the theory problematic. In other words, you could say that I'm stuck at level 7 of the PCT hierarchy if you applied PCT to itself.

So how can I resolve this cognitive dissonance? I ask this question not on my behalf, but on behalf of my colleagues who will be asking me this question once I include PCT, with credit to Bill, of course, in a more comprehensive worldview that frames PCT as the first rung of a ladder of knowledge (i.e., the shadow in Plato's ladder of love).

The most relevant philosophy that comes to mind is perspectivism, with PCT conceived as the anthropocentric perspective or first rung in the ladder. By the way, I interpret each level in the PCT hierarchy as a form of intersubjectivity along the lines of Ronald Giere's perspectival realism.

Thoughts anyone?

Chad

Chad Green, PMP
Program Analyst
Loudoun County Public Schools
21000 Education Court
Ashburn, VA 20148
Voice: 571-252-1486
Fax: 571-252-1633

Bjorn <bjsimon@ONLINE.NO> 10/6/2010 2:58 AM >>>

from Bjorn Simonsen (2010.10.08, 08:55 EUST)]
Prof Roger K Moore ca. 2010.08.03

Leotti, L. A., Iyengar, S. S., & Ochsner, K. N. (2010). Born to choose: the
origins and value of the need for control. Trends in Cognitive Sciences,
14(10), 457-463.

Belief in one's ability to exert control over the environment and to produce
desired results is essential for an individual's wellbeing.

This sentence is the first in the abstract from the article above. I will not read the article because of this sentence and I will try to explain why.

I think people and other organisms that have a brain are able to receive variables from beyond the brain and change them in the sensory cells into nerve signals that move from there along dendrites, nerve cells and axions to different locations in the brain (afferent neurons). (also efferent nerve signals).

I think that we cannot see (or sense in other ways) anything outside of our sensory cells without using nerve signals. No nervesignals leads to no perceptions. If I look at a tree, the tree I see is a result of nerve signals.Perception of the tree is in this simple case my representation of something outside the sensory cells. I don't think anybody are able express what the variables that affect our sensingcells really are.
Many people say that the variables that affect their sensingcells have a one-to-one relationship to what we perceive and they talk about the extern world as if it is just what they perceiv. That is OK if they agree, but they are still aware of their perceptions. The one-to-one relationship is an imagination that they also perceive.
I think that the only way we can exercise control is to control our perceptions. We have no ability to exert control over our environment. Therefore we cannot produce disired results for an individual wellbeing by controlling our environment.

bjorn

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2010.10.07, 11:25 EUST)]

Chad Green around 2010.10.06.

It is important that we appreciate the other side of the equation because
it is not the other side that is so important as attaining the shared space
between the sides. In other words, it is a process of stretching or
decentering which, when you have control over it, makes life as we know
it exponentially simpler and more meaningful. This shared space is the
origin from which our values, principles, and meaning itself emanates.

I don’t know if I understand what you write. I think you talk about a metaphoric equation, but I have no idea how I can explain that two philosophical or psychological thoughts or values/principles have the same equation value. Sorry.

I understand your second sentence better if I write: "In other words, it is a process of control when I stretch or destretch my perceptions. It makes life meaningful if I wish to perceive a certain perception and I manage it. My perceptions of the extern world is the origin from which my thoughts and imaginations (also values/principles) emanate.

All: Speaking of meaning making, I am beginning to see a pattern in my
triangulation of the meaning of the word “perception”. For example, the
winner of the 2010 Jean Nicod Prize, UCLA’s Tyler Burge, states at the
beginning of his lecture series entitled Thresholds of Reason, that
“perception is the most primitive form of representational mind”: >http://www.institutnicod.org/lectures2010_outline.htm

I think Tyler Burge perceive the extern world more or less in the same way as other people. But the thoughts and meanings that the extern world emanate for him are different from my thoughts and meanings.

I define perceptions as a dynamic matrix of perceptual signals moving from my sensing cells to central parts of the brain. I am able to be aware of, put my attention toward and be conscious of my perceptions, but I don’t know where in the brain and how.

For me perceptions are the only thing/event/process I am aware of and they represent something in the extern world (outside my sensing cells) that I don’t know what is.

Don’t get me wrong. I have a copy of the PCT hierarchy taped to my
computer monitor as I refer to it often to make sense of my program
evaluation work, primarily at levels 9 and higher. However, I find
the word “perceptual” or “levels of perception” in the theory problematic.
In other words, you could say that I’m stuck at level 7 of the PCT
hierarchy if you applied PCT to itself.

Again I have problems understanding what you mean when you say: “I’m stuck at level 7 of the PCT
hierarchy if you applied PCT to itself.” Give me an example where you apply PCT to itself.

So how can I resolve this cognitive dissonance? I ask this question
not on my behalf, but on behalf of my colleagues who will be asking
me this question once I include PCT, with credit to Bill, of course,
in a more comprehensive worldview that frames PCT as the first rung
of a ladder of knowledge (i.e., the shadow in Plato’s ladder of love). by forgetting

Don’t misunderstand when I say that you can solve your cognitive dissonance by forgetting Tyler Burge and Ronald Giere’s perspectival realism. Study your Behavior: The Control of perception and your Making Sense of Behavior. I am just a simple PCT-er (if my PCT knowledge is correct).

bjorn

Bjorn,

Thank you for the questions. The easiest way to visualize the shared space between ideas is to look at the interactions between metaballs:
Metaballs - Wikipedia . If you look at image 1 on the right pane, you can obviously see that the two metaballs are attracted to each other. Why? What is the source of this attraction? Take a look at image 2. What is causing that indentation on the sphere? It's asking questions like these that lead to new insights.

I use the same process while interpreting all theories. This "principle of permanent curiosity" goes like this: The most important aspect of any theory is missing or hidden from view. For example, did you know the imaginary number was discovered by Heron of Alexandria using this same process? In this case he was trying to calculate the volume of a pyramidal frustrum. Einstein had a similar orientation, although his curiosity was the unseen forces behind the magnetic compass.

I enjoyed reading your translation of my text. Again, my only edit would be to replace the word perception with perspective. Perception to me is an inherently anthropocentric view to begin with, so if you must use it, then I suspect that its boundary conditions will limit your thinking to within the hierarchy, rather than beyond it.

Speaking of cells, have you seen this Ted.com video on supercomputing the brain:
http://www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLS3wMC2BpxU&h=01edb

So how are we conscious of our own perceptions when a single neuron is as unique as we are on the planet, that it takes a single computer to model a single neuron, and that current supercomputing technology can model only 10,000 neurons when we have over 100 billion in our heads? Given all this complexity, I would not be surprised if each neuron followed a PCT hierarchy!

Believe me, I have spent years trying to model this complexity. What I have learned in an effort to leverage it is that the most important feature is the signal-to-noise ratio. That's all you really need to control. Of course, you need to factor in the utility of noise (stochastic resonance) as well.

As for being stuck at level 7 (i.e., the use of perceptual categories), that's what happens when you confront a theory that is a polarity of another competing theory. Theories of this nature always have the seeds of the other polarity built in them if you look carefully. That is why I try not to get too close to theories, otherwise they limit your clarity of thought. What is most important is the unfolding contextual complexity, seen or unseen.

As for the use of other theories, the ultimate litmus test to me is whether or not a theory empowers you to empower others. If it does the former and not the latter, then you need to start over at the beginning of this message once again.

Chad

PS Check out the legend of Cupid and Psyche for the same perspective using a different message: Cupid and Psyche - Wikipedia

Chad Green, PMP
Program Analyst
Loudoun County Public Schools
21000 Education Court
Ashburn, VA 20148
Voice: 571-252-1486
Fax: 571-252-1633

Bjorn <bjsimon@ONLINE.NO> 10/7/2010 5:25 AM >>>

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2010.10.07, 11:25 EUST)]

Chad Green around 2010.10.06.

It is important that we appreciate the other side of the equation because
it is not the other side that is so important as attaining the shared space
between the sides. In other words, it is a process of stretching or
decentering which, when you have control over it, makes life as we know
it exponentially simpler and more meaningful. This shared space is the
origin from which our values, principles, and meaning itself emanates.

I don't know if I understand what you write. I think you talk about a metaphoric equation, but I have no idea how I can explain that two philosophical or psychological thoughts or values/principles have the same equation value. Sorry.

I understand your second sentence better if I write: "In other words, it is a process of control when I stretch or destretch my perceptions. It makes life meaningful if I wish to perceive a certain perception and I manage it. My perceptions of the extern world is the origin from which my thoughts and imaginations (also values/principles) emanate.

All: Speaking of meaning making, I am beginning to see a pattern in my
triangulation of the meaning of the word "perception". For example, the
winner of the 2010 Jean Nicod Prize, UCLA's Tyler Burge, states at the
beginning of his lecture series entitled Thresholds of Reason, that
"perception is the most primitive form of representational mind": >http://www.institutnicod.org/lectures2010_outline.htm ....

I think Tyler Burge perceive the extern world more or less in the same way as other people. But the thoughts and meanings that the extern world emanate for him are different from my thoughts and meanings.

I define perceptions as a dynamic matrix of perceptual signals moving from my sensing cells to central parts of the brain. I am able to be aware of, put my attention toward and be conscious of my perceptions, but I don't know where in the brain and how.
For me perceptions are the only thing/event/process I am aware of and they represent something in the extern world (outside my sensing cells) that I don't know what is.

Don't get me wrong. I have a copy of the PCT hierarchy taped to my
computer monitor as I refer to it often to make sense of my program
evaluation work, primarily at levels 9 and higher. However, I find
the word "perceptual" or "levels of perception" in the theory problematic.
In other words, you could say that I'm stuck at level 7 of the PCT
hierarchy if you applied PCT to itself.

Again I have problems understanding what you mean when you say: "I'm stuck at level 7 of the PCT
hierarchy if you applied PCT to itself." Give me an example where you apply PCT to itself.

So how can I resolve this cognitive dissonance? I ask this question
not on my behalf, but on behalf of my colleagues who will be asking
me this question once I include PCT, with credit to Bill, of course,
in a more comprehensive worldview that frames PCT as the first rung
of a ladder of knowledge (i.e., the shadow in Plato's ladder of love). by forgetting

Don't misunderstand when I say that you can solve your cognitive dissonance by forgetting Tyler Burge and Ronald Giere's perspectival realism. Study your Behavior: The Control of perception and your Making Sense of Behavior. I am just a simple PCT-er (if my PCT knowledge is correct).

bjorn

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2010.10.08, 13:25 EUST)]

From Chad Green ca. 2010.10.07.

The easiest way to visualize the shared space between ideas is to
look at the interactions between metaballs:
Metaballs - Wikipedia
.

It’s asking questions like these that lead to new insights.

That is OK. I understand what you say and I am glad you use the word “insights”.

Let me now go back to your (From Chad green ca. 2010.10.07.

It is important that we appreciate the other side of the equation because
it is not the other side that is so important as attaining the shared space
between the sides. In other words, it is a process of stretching or
decentering which, when you have control over it, makes life as we know
it exponentially simpler and more meaningful. This shared space is the
origin from which our values, principles, and meaning itself emanates.

All: Speaking of meaning making, I am beginning to see a pattern in my
triangulation of the meaning of the word “perception”.

When I read this first time I thought you by “stretching and decentering, when we have control over it, makes life as we know it exponentially simpler and more meaningful”.

The way I read it now is that you and other have the imagination that the “shared place” you achieve by “stretching and decentering” ( hope you get what I think by my shortened way of writing) is the origin from which perceptions emanate.
If this is correct, the “simpler and more meaningful life” is the way you feel and “stretching and decentering” is the way you talk of philosophy or the psychology (what you have studied). The way I see the relationship between the way you feel and the way you talk about these feelings is that you are not able to determine the way you feel before you have learned to talk about it. The way you feel is dependent on what you talk about (the subject of philosophy and psychology). I say that because the way I understand the “stretching” process is that you can always stretch more and the subject of philosophy and psychology can always grow (the principle of permanent curiosity).

My principle of permanent curiosity is to always ask what is wrong with my theories or those theories I like very much.

Back to
“From Chad Green ca. 2010.10.07.”

I enjoyed reading your translation of my text. Again, my only edit would be to

replace the word perception with perspective. Perception to me is an

inherently anthropocentric view to begin with, so if you must use it, then I

suspect that its boundary conditions will limit your thinking to within the hierarchy,

rather than beyond it.

Well I have to start with a beginning. Maybe also I will understand perceptions more detailed after some time?

Speaking of cells, have you seen this Ted.com video on supercomputing the brain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS3wMC2BpxU (the correct one)

Yes I have seen it and I will see it some times more. I think PCT could be mentioned many times in that video. Maybe he should ask IBM to build an analog computer instead of the big project mentioned in the video.

Given all this complexity, I would not be surprised if each neuron

followed a PCT hierarchy!

Neither I. But the HPCT is for me just a coarse way to express a still better hierarchy. Here is plenty of themes to work with. But I am not able to express it better than what Bill has done. It is a bad thing that billions of people have not heard about it.

Believe me, I have spent years trying to model this complexity. What
I have learned in an effort to leverage it is that the most important feature
is the signal-to-noise ratio. That’s all you really need to control. Of
course, you need to factor in the utility of noise (stochastic resonance) as well.

I believe you. Your next sentences are too complicated for me. When I work with a PCT model (I use PowerSim and hope to yse 2D Smalltalk), I control the value of perceptions.

As for being stuck at level 7 (i.e., the use of perceptual categories),
that’s what happens when you confront a theory that is a polarity of
another competing theory. Theories of this nature always have the
seeds of the other polarity built in them if you look carefully. That is
why I try not to get too close to theories, otherwise they limit your
clarity of thought. What is most important is the unfolding contextual
complexity, seen or unseen.

Now I understand what you mean by saying that you are stuck at level 7. Maybe we all are stuck at level 7 in our way? I don’t think you should be afraid of getting too close to HPCT. Because if you find that the theory is wrong, it is wrong and a new theory must take its place.

As for the use of other theories, the ultimate litmus test to me is whether
or not a theory empowers you to empower others. If it does the
former and not the latter, then you need to start over at the beginning of
this message once again.

Then I have a litmus problem when I talk with people about PCT. PCT empowers me but other people close their ears.

bjorn

Bjorn, if you want others to open their ears to what you want to tell them, then I'd recommend that you find the most curious child you know and ask them why they are so curious. They will probably ask you why you asked the question in the first place, which is an indication that their mind is completely open to the perspective of the other in general.

When we try to gain control over the environment, paradoxically, I suspect we also lose control over the aspect of ourselves that is connected with the interdependent web of existence. Perhaps another word for this aspect is curiosity, as in this quote by Einstein: "Curiosity has its own reason for existing." So perhaps the key is to learn to appreciate as many perspectives as possible (e.g., the photon as for Einstein) through a decentering process. By decentering from yourself, you become sensitive to the implicit connections around you and then learn to leverage them through indirect force.

All: Perhaps rather than levels of perception (PCT), we could call it levels of apperception (ACT)? That would also work for me. :slight_smile:

Chad

Chad Green, PMP
Program Analyst
Loudoun County Public Schools
21000 Education Court
Ashburn, VA 20148
Voice: 571-252-1486
Fax: 571-252-1633

Bjorn <bjsimon@ONLINE.NO> 10/8/2010 7:24 AM >>>

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2010.10.08, 13:25 EUST)]

from Chad Green ca. 2010.10.07.

The easiest way to visualize the shared space between ideas is to
look at the interactions between metaballs:
Metaballs - Wikipedia .
........
........
It's asking questions like these that lead to new insights.

That is OK. I understand what you say and I am glad you use the word "insights".

Let me now go back to your (From Chad green ca. 2010.10.07.

It is important that we appreciate the other side of the equation because
it is not the other side that is so important as attaining the shared space
between the sides. In other words, it is a process of stretching or
decentering which, when you have control over it, makes life as we know
it exponentially simpler and more meaningful. This shared space is the
origin from which our values, principles, and meaning itself emanates.

All: Speaking of meaning making, I am beginning to see a pattern in my
triangulation of the meaning of the word "perception".

When I read this first time I thought you by "stretching and decentering, when we have control over it, makes life as we know it exponentially simpler and more meaningful".
The way I read it now is that you and other have the imagination that the "shared place" you achieve by "stretching and decentering" ( hope you get what I think by my shortened way of writing) is the origin from which perceptions emanate.
If this is correct, the "simpler and more meaningful life" is the way you feel and "stretching and decentering" is the way you talk of philosophy or the psychology (what you have studied). The way I see the relationship between the way you feel and the way you talk about these feelings is that you are not able to determine the way you feel before you have learned to talk about it. The way you feel is dependent on what you talk about (the subject of philosophy and psychology). I say that because the way I understand the "stretching" process is that you can always stretch more and the subject of philosophy and psychology can always grow (the principle of permanent curiosity).

My principle of permanent curiosity is to always ask what is wrong with my theories or those theories I like very much.

Back to
"From Chad Green ca. 2010.10.07."

I enjoyed reading your translation of my text. Again, my only edit would be to
replace the word perception with perspective. Perception to me is an
inherently anthropocentric view to begin with, so if you must use it, then I
suspect that its boundary conditions will limit your thinking to within the hierarchy,
rather than beyond it.

Well I have to start with a beginning. Maybe also I will understand perceptions more detailed after some time?

Speaking of cells, have you seen this Ted.com video on supercomputing the brain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS3wMC2BpxU (the correct one)

Yes I have seen it and I will see it some times more. I think PCT could be mentioned many times in that video. Maybe he should ask IBM to build an analog computer instead of the big project mentioned in the video.

Given all this complexity, I would not be surprised if each neuron
followed a PCT hierarchy!

Neither I. But the HPCT is for me just a coarse way to express a still better hierarchy. Here is plenty of themes to work with. But I am not able to express it better than what Bill has done. It is a bad thing that billions of people have not heard about it.

Believe me, I have spent years trying to model this complexity. What
I have learned in an effort to leverage it is that the most important feature
is the signal-to-noise ratio. That's all you really need to control. Of
course, you need to factor in the utility of noise (stochastic resonance) as well.

I believe you. Your next sentences are too complicated for me. When I work with a PCT model (I use PowerSim and hope to yse 2D Smalltalk), I control the value of perceptions.

As for being stuck at level 7 (i.e., the use of perceptual categories),
that's what happens when you confront a theory that is a polarity of
another competing theory. Theories of this nature always have the
seeds of the other polarity built in them if you look carefully. That is
why I try not to get too close to theories, otherwise they limit your
clarity of thought. What is most important is the unfolding contextual
complexity, seen or unseen.

Now I understand what you mean by saying that you are stuck at level 7. Maybe we all are stuck at level 7 in our way? I don't think you should be afraid of getting too close to HPCT. Because if you find that the theory is wrong, it is wrong and a new theory must take its place.

As for the use of other theories, the ultimate litmus test to me is whether
or not a theory empowers you to empower others. If it does the
former and not the latter, then you need to start over at the beginning of
this message once again.

Then I have a litmus problem when I talk with people about PCT. PCT empowers me but other people close their ears.

bjorn