references

CSGnet Archive CSG1998
1

[from Mary Powers 980223]

To Jeff Vancouver:

At this point you seem to have made up your mind that anything you give us
to read will be rejected: "if you think our Psych Bull article is trash you
would probably think their stuff is trash".

Also you seem to want to restrict information to those who are "truly
interested". How does one qualify? It's not enough to ask?

Whatever. I have no access to psychinfo. I have very poor access to very
few journals - since the local college is very small, undergrad only, and
it's almost impossible to find a parking place.

Therefore if I am to read any published material, I would appreciate either
a reprint of same (I don't know if your Psych Bull article is trash because
I haven't read it, or the BS article you mentioned a while back either) or
the necessary info to make Interlibrary Loan requests: author's name,
article title, journal name, journal year, volume, issue, and page numbers.
I realize that this would be tiresome to provide, especially if you
anticipate criticism, but when you talk about all these great people doing
great control theory work, you really should be ready to back it up with
evidence. I'm sorry to say your say-so doesn't suffice.

Mary P.

2

[from Jeff Vancouver 980224.0845 EST]

[from Mary Powers 980223]
Therefore if I am to read any published material, I would appreciate either
a reprint of same (I don't know if your Psych Bull article is trash because
I haven't read it, or the BS article you mentioned a while back either) or
the necessary info to make Interlibrary Loan requests: author's name,
article title, journal name, journal year, volume, issue, and page numbers.
I realize that this would be tiresome to provide, especially if you
anticipate criticism, but when you talk about all these great people doing
great control theory work, you really should be ready to back it up with
evidence. I'm sorry to say your say-so doesn't suffice.

I would not expect my say-so to suffice. I also do not think that what I
am refering to would classify as "great control theory work." It is messy
control theory work because of the constraints of attempting to solve
applied problems. That is why I think you will reject it. Nonetheless, I
will try to scare up some references for you.

Better yet, I am about to send you and Bill a copy of the chapter I wrote
for the Handbook of Self-Regulation. These people I am talking about are
the editors and some of the contributors to that book. I could also throw
in some of these peoples' articles (I can get to them and copy them fairly
easily). In addition, I could throw in copies of our Psych Bull and my BS
article. But ask Bill. He has commented on both those later papers. You
should have copies somewhere around the house (unless, of course, he
literally did trash them). Let me know. In the meantime, I will put
together a packet.

Sincerely,

Jeff

3

[LaRue, 83.08.31 @ 14:35 EDT]

Hello; I am new to the net, having signed on about two weeks ago.
(Some comments on the UNCJIN made your group sound worth my
trouble.) As of yet I haven't spoken, since I have been trying to
figure out what the theory is. I have read the postings and the
first seven chapters of Bill Powers' '73 book. I have sent off for
the Robertson and Powers textbook.

As I try to learn, it does help to compare PCT with analogous
theories that I have read, and thus, my questions in this posting.

One way to make the comparison is to ask how you make the comparison,
and so I wonder if anyone has done a book review (or whatever) of the
following:
    Derek Bickerton, "Language and Species"
    Humberto Maturana & Francisco Varela, "The Tree of Knowledge"
    Francisco Varela, Evan Thompson & Eleanor Rosch, "The Embodied
Mind."

If anyone knows of a review of any of these, from a PCT perspective,
I would be pleased if you could give me a reference.

By the way, let me introduce myself. I teach law (now in my 27th
year), and five years ago began to teach the course in "Evidence." I
am interested in the different ways in which different people
interpret the evidence that is presented at trials, and in
particular, in the different sorts of inferences that different
people make from evidence. Consequently, I am interested in what PCT
might teach me about these topics.

I look foreward to finishing Powers' 1973 book and to reading
whatever anyone recommends.

    Best wishes,

Lewis Henry LaRue
Washington and Lee University
School of Law
Lexington, VA 24450

e-mail address: LHL@FS.LAW.WLU.EDU
telephone: 703-463-8513

4

From Tom Bourbon [930831.1728]

[LaRue, 83.08.31 @ 14:35 EDT]

Hello; I am new to the net, having signed on about two weeks ago.
(Some comments on the UNCJIN made your group sound worth my
trouble.) As of yet I haven't spoken, since I have been trying to
figure out what the theory is. I have read the postings and the
first seven chapters of Bill Powers' '73 book. I have sent off for
the Robertson and Powers textbook.

Lewis, hello and congratulations on "going public" as a participant on
csg-l.

As I try to learn, it does help to compare PCT with analogous
theories that I have read, and thus, my questions in this posting.

One way to make the comparison is to ask how you make the comparison,
and so I wonder if anyone has done a book review (or whatever) of the
following:
   Derek Bickerton, "Language and Species"
   Humberto Maturana & Francisco Varela, "The Tree of Knowledge"
   Francisco Varela, Evan Thompson & Eleanor Rosch, "The Embodied
Mind."

If anyone knows of a review of any of these, from a PCT perspective,
I would be pleased if you could give me a reference.

I can't help you on this question. Until recently, there haven't been many
of us writing about PCT at all, much less writing PCTish reviews of books
by other people. However, there is a publication from the American Society
for Cybernetics from a few yeats ago in which Bill Powers and Humberto
Maturana each have a paper. The book comes from a meeting at which "texts"
by those two, and (who else was it Bill?) were read and discussed by all who
attended. If someone does not beat me to it, I will post the citation in
the morning -- my copy of the book is at home.

Ah, I just remembered that Bill's contribution, "An outline of control
theory," is reprinted in Living Control Systems I, where I see that the
original citation was: _Conference Workbook for 'Texts in Cybernetic
Theory'", American Society for Cybernetics, Felton, California, October
18-23, 1988. Bill's contribution was pages 1-32.

By the way, let me introduce myself. I teach law (now in my 27th
year), and five years ago began to teach the course in "Evidence." I
am interested in the different ways in which different people
interpret the evidence that is presented at trials, and in
particular, in the different sorts of inferences that different
people make from evidence. Consequently, I am interested in what PCT
might teach me about these topics.

Wonderful! You might want to communicate with Hugh Gibbons, a professor of
law who has written on the theory of law, starting with the premise that
people can be modeled as perceptual control systems. Again, my sources are
not at hand, but I will bring them in the morning.

I hope you will excuse a post in which I promise much and deliver nothing,
but I wanted to welcome you before going home to dinner.

Until later,

  Tom Bourbon
Tom Bourbon
Department of Neurosurgry
University of Texas Medical School-Houston Phone: 713-792-5760
6431 Fannin, Suite 7.138 Fax: 713-794-5084
Houston, TX 77030 USA tbourbon@heart.med.uth.tmc.edu