Reply to Rick Marken I think.

[Gabriel 921216 14:59CST]

Rick, I think you asked what were the feedback paths for the wolves
and the baboons. I think I'v answered in two long posts one in
reply to Bill and theother to Tom Bourbon.

They are not what you are asking about, which is why I'm interested
in more general things than the simple control theory of Arm.

But there are feed back paths. They just change the Markov matrices
in the population genetics to select against excessive quarellsomeness
in wolves, and excessive carelessness in baboons.

There are some intererestin phenomena in people too. I expect
everybody on the net knows the Outward Bound program. In New Zealand
we sort of ran our own, mountaineering, motor cycle racing, and
other such things - always done on a shoestring - I could spend
three summer weeks in the mountains for less that it cost me in
room rent and board when I was a summer student at NZ's equivalent
of NBS. And the bike I raced was older than I was, and I learned
a whole lot of machinist skills I would never have had otherwise
keeping the damn thing running.

Anyhoo The bottom line in all those things was that screwing up
was surefire guaranteed to get you hurt, and could quite easily
get you killed. And it wasn't just making an error of judgement
about a corner or a hold. Ignoring a frayed throttle cable
on the grounds that "It'll do another race" was just as serious
even if it meant not going to the cinema so that you could pay
for parts, or infinite patience coaching a chap who played
Rugby for the National Football team through his B.S. in
mathematics, so as to pay for parts to rebuild front forks
that were going unstable (see I even learned my control
theory the hard way).

So you learned the "sense of personal responsibility for your actions"
that Bill P. took exception to, the hard way. Just like the wolves.

Some place in my background there's a quote that's bound to raise
more hell on the net. Probably from some NZ ex serviceman who
had been in Crete and in prison camp after that, whom I taught
mathematics in 1948. Only the guys who've been shot at have the
right to originate these kinds of remarks, although those of us
who have led more quiet lives can quote them - "All the fun of
War, most of its' Discomfort, but only 1% of the danger." -
about mountaineering.

                John (gabriel@eid.anl.gov)

PS Now, I gotta stay off the net except for business for the Gang
of 5, or I never get any work do
done. Midnight oil for me until 2 AM I'm afraid.