Request for Research References

[Rick Marken 2018-08-27_15:11:23]

I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to get as many as possible. So I’m writing to ask for references to some good examples of such research. I would prefer references to research papers that have been published in refereed journals. Please send ideas to me at my email address: rsmarken@gmail.com.Â

Thanks

BestÂ

Rick

···

Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Incredible…

···

From: Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 12:12 AM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Cc: Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com
Subject: Request for Research References

[Rick Marken 2018-08-27_15:11:23]

I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to get as many as possible. So I’m writing to ask for references to some good examples of such research. I would prefer references to research papers that have been published in refereed journals. Please send ideas to me at my email address: rsmarken@gmail.com.

HB : Rick this is not a good idea considering that you don’t understand PCT. And you are asking others to get you material for your presentation ? Shouldn’t you be representing your research work in PCT ? I assume that on IAPCT conference you should present PCT. Isn’t it so ?

Whatever I had a chance to see about your research methods in PCT was only in realm of RCT (mostly behaviorism) like baseball catch which you never explained with scientific means. Your research methods about how organisms function are simply wrong.

Boris

Thanks

Best

Rick

Richard S. Marken

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
–Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Martin Taylor 2018.08.28.07.12]

[Rick Marken 2018-08-27_15:11:23]

I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to get as many as possible. So I'm writing to ask for references to some good examples of such research.

You have the 1999 PCT issue of IJHCS to which you contributed. I'm not at home and I don't have access to it at the moment, but I think you will find about eight references there, covering a wide range of topics from Bill and (?)Tom's demonstration of perceptual control to control of self-image and the design of interfaces for pilots.

Martin

[Rick Marken 2018-08-28_10:21:39]

Martin Taylor (2018.08.28.07.12)–

RM:Â I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research

methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the

talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to

get as many as possible. So I’m writing to ask for references to some

good examples of such research.

MT: You have the 1999 PCT issue of IJHCS to which you contributed. I’m not

at home and I don’t have access to it at the moment, but I think you

will find about eight references there, covering a wide range of topics

from Bill and (?)Tom’s demonstration of perceptual control to control of

self-image and the design of interfaces for pilots.

RM: I should have been more specific. I’m looking for suggestions for research articles that are in relatively high impact psychological journals, such as JEP:HPP and Psychological Science. that describe research that, intentionally or not, can serve as a good example of how to do PCT research. I’m familiar with the research articles published by the “usual suspects” – people who are or have been on CSGNet, have come to CSG meetings in the past, etc. What I’m looking for are articles in high impact journals that are not done by “fans” of PCT but that seem to be reasonable examples of PCT research, even if not done on the basis of an understanding of PCT.Â

RM: By the way, I don’t intend to do a critical review of any of this research. I am only looking for (and will only include in my talk) examples of research that can be used show how PCT type research can be used to study different kinds of purposeful behavior.Â

Best

Rick

···

Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Boris - you are counterproductive and I hope Rick just ignores your email

Allie

···

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 4:56 AM “Boris Hartman” csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:

Incredible…

ÂÂ

From: Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 12:12 AM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Cc: Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com
Subject: Request for Research References

Â

[Rick Marken 2018-08-27_15:11:23]

Â

I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to get as many as possible. So I’m writing to ask for references to some good examples of such research. I would prefer references to research papers that have been published in refereed journals. Please send ideas to me at my email address: rsmarken@gmail.com.Â

Â

HB : Rick this is not a good idea considering that you don’t understand PCT. And you are asking others to get you material for your presentation ? Shouldn’t you be representing your research work in PCT ? I assume that on IAPCT conference you should present PCT. Isn’t it so ?

Whatever I had a chance to see about your research methods in PCT was only in realm of RCT (mostly behaviorism) like baseball catch which you never explained with scientific means. Your research methods about how organisms function are simply wrong.

Â

Boris

Â

Â

Â

Thanks

Â

BestÂ

Â

Rick

Â

Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

You really get lost Rick

···

From: Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 7:22 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Request for Research References

[Rick Marken 2018-08-28_10:21:39]

Martin Taylor (2018.08.28.07.12)–

RM: I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research
methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the
talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to
get as many as possible. So I’m writing to ask for references to some
good examples of such research.

MT: You have the 1999 PCT issue of IJHCS to which you contributed. I’m not
at home and I don’t have access to it at the moment, but I think you
will find about eight references there, covering a wide range of topics
from Bill and (?)Tom’s demonstration of perceptual control to control of
self-image and the design of interfaces for pilots.

RM: I should have been more specific. I’m looking for suggestions for research articles that are in relatively high impact psychological journals, such as JEP:HPP and Psychological Science. that describe research that, intentionally or not, can serve as a good example of how to do PCT research.

HB : How can psychological research be a god example of PCT research ??? Bill devoted a great part of his life proving that pyschological research and results are wrong way of understanding how organisms function.

RM : I’m familiar with the research articles published by the “usual suspects” – people who are or have been on CSGNet, have come to CSG meetings in the past, etc.

HB : Eetu once pointed on link…

EP : An extensive description about PCT type of research in relation to more typical psychological research is in Runkel, P. (1990). Casting Nets and Testing Specimens: Two Grand Methods of Psychology.

RM : What I’m looking for are articles in high impact journals that are not done by “fans” of PCT but that seem to be reasonable examples of PCT research, even if not done on the basis of an understanding of PCT.

HB : I think you are lost Rick

RM: By the way, I don’t intend to do a critical review of any of this research. I am only looking for (and will only include in my talk) examples of research that can be used show how PCT type research can be used to study different kinds of purposeful behavior.

HB : So you think that PCT is not good enough theory that could explain all purposefull behaviors ? What are you doing on CSGnet and even IAPCT board will support your ignorancy. No wonder that PCT is dissapearing.

You have to understand how organisms function to do relevant researches on PCT purposefull behavior otherwise you’ll finished in self-regulation ditch like Carver did (if you’ll try to search reasonable psychological examples on purposefull behavior). Psychology deviated long time ago and if I understand right you are deviating too. You are psychologist aren’t you. And you want to find “birds of the feather” that will understand your RCT. Is that what you are looking for ?

You are obviously removing from PCT and you are exclusivelly on RCT kind of examples in research. Maybe you shouls really join to Carver and Baumeister’s (http://www.roybaumeister.com/about) or Vancouver…etc. They will probably lead you to 100 of expert researchees you are looking for. They are already doing and writing about such a researches of goal-directed (purposeful) behavior where goals are outside (like Vancouvers goal-approching and goal-avoiding behaviors). These are reasonable examples of PCT research, but they are wrong.

What exactly do you want ? Obviously you think that PCT is not enough good theory for researching how organisms function and you are looking for better one. Well I think that today you can’t find better.

Start working where Bill stopped… help finnishing his work…

Boris

Best

Rick

Richard S. Marken

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
–Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Bruce Nevin 2018-09-01_12:11:29 ET]

It’s not in a high-impact journal, but the experimental work by Shira Katseff and John Houde that we’ve discussed before is an example that I have reformulated as a proposed PCT model.

···

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:22 PM Richard Marken csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:

[Rick Marken 2018-08-28_10:21:39]

Martin Taylor (2018.08.28.07.12)–

RM:Â I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research

methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the

talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to

get as many as possible. So I’m writing to ask for references to some

good examples of such research.

MT: You have the 1999 PCT issue of IJHCS to which you contributed. I’m not

at home and I don’t have access to it at the moment, but I think you

will find about eight references there, covering a wide range of topics

from Bill and (?)Tom’s demonstration of perceptual control to control of

self-image and the design of interfaces for pilots.

RM: I should have been more specific. I’m looking for suggestions for research articles that are in relatively high impact psychological journals, such as JEP:HPP and Psychological Science. that describe research that, intentionally or not, can serve as a good example of how to do PCT research. I’m familiar with the research articles published by the “usual suspects” – people who are or have been on CSGNet, have come to CSG meetings in the past, etc. What I’m looking for are articles in high impact journals that are not done by “fans” of PCT but that seem to be reasonable examples of PCT research, even if not done on the basis of an understanding of PCT.Â

RM: By the way, I don’t intend to do a critical review of any of this research. I am only looking for (and will only include in my talk) examples of research that can be used show how PCT type research can be used to study different kinds of purposeful behavior.Â

Best

Rick


Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Rick Marken 2018-09-01_12:57:20]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-09-01_12:11:29 ET]

BN: It’s not in a high-impact journal, but the experimental work by Shira Katseff and John Houde that we’ve discussed before is an example that I have reformulated as a proposed PCT model.

RM: Thanks for reminding me. Yes, I was already going to include that. Of course, it’s not a perfect PCT study but it’s definitely on the right track. And that’s all I really want; conventional studies that are on the right track inasmuch as they are monitoring possibly controlled consequences of behavior rather than responses to stimuli.Â

BestÂ

Rick

Â

···

Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Bruce Nevin 2018-09-01_12:22:44 ET]

This journal is more mainstream than the issue of phonology lab reports where it appeared before:

Katseff, Shira; John Houde; & Keith Johnson (2012) Partial compensation for altered auditory feedback: A tradeoff with somatosensory feedback? Language and speech 55.2:295-308. http://www.linguistics.berkeley.edu/~kjohnson/papers/Katseff_Houde_Johnson_2012.pdf

In general, linguists are not all that much involved with the idea that stimuli cause responses, though of course they swim amid those assumptions. Everything comes back to the judgments of native speakers, whether two utterances are ‘the same’ or different (contrast), whether a given utterance is normal or only in restricted contexts or not accepted as part of the language at all, etc. – so the focus is on perceptions. This often involves disturbing controlled perceptions (though they do not call it that) in order to elicit those judgments.

That said, conventional linguists are benighted in a different way that I’ll sketch in a minute.

There’s lots of stuff that I haven’t looked at in psycholinguistics and related cogsci. I don’t have ready access to the psycholx journals, e.g.

Cognition

Journal of Memory and Language

*Language, Cognition, and Neuroscience *

Also under the general rubric of experimental linguistics.

http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199772810/obo-9780199772810-0112.xml

I only get two journals in the field, Language (the LSA journal) and the International Journal of American Linguistics (which mostly concerns indigenous languages of the Americas). I’ll look through the former for some reports of experimental work. I’m sure there is some qualified stuff, but pulling it out from under overbearing presuppositions is not easy.

So, with the implicit caveat that according to standards of the field I don’t know what I’m talking about, here’s a sketch of how ‘mainstream linguistics’ is confused with presuppositions.

In the CogSci triad of S and R mediated by cognitive processes, linguists are thought to provide the primo evidence about the cognitive processes, a window into the real “nature of mind”. Generative linguistics performs the ‘down the hall’ function for cog psych and cog psych returns the favor, so each has supported the other through their entire history. (Bill talked about the ‘down the hall’ phenomenon, where the guy you’re talking to realizes he has nothing but handwaving for some parts of his theorizing, ‘but that’s not really my specialization, Fred down the hall can explain that part to you. Just go talk to him’. So you go talk to Fred, but he, too, has some handwaving bits where he sends you off to others down the hall, etc.) There have been schisms in Generative linguistics and even apostasy, cognitive linguistics socalled being the main rival, and then there is empirical work with large corpora. Psycholinguists of any stripe assume functional modularity of brain/mind in a way which is directly inherited from Chomsky’s fundamental error of generating an abstract ‘syntactic structure’ (the syntactic component) and then figuring out how to connect words to that structure (the lexicon), with meanings connected to those words on the one hand (the semantic component) and sounds connected to those words on the other (the phonological component). Jerrold Katz and others promoted notions of modularity in the 60s and later. Current ideas about modularity are typified in slides 13-17 from Maria Polinsky’s presentation on research methods in experimental linguistics, where she identifies two “big questions”, Big Q1 and Big Q2.

http://paris2016.mariapolinsky.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Tutorial-Psycholingx.pdf

Here are screenshots of these slides, in attached files named Modularity1.jpg … Modularity5.jpg.

···

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 12:19 PM Bruce Nevin bnhpct@gmail.com wrote:

[Bruce Nevin 2018-09-01_12:11:29 ET]

It’s not in a high-impact journal, but the experimental work by Shira Katseff and John Houde that we’ve discussed before is an example that I have reformulated as a proposed PCT model.

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:22 PM Richard Marken csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:

[Rick Marken 2018-08-28_10:21:39]

Martin Taylor (2018.08.28.07.12)–

RM:Â I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research

methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the

talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to

get as many as possible. So I’m writing to ask for references to some

good examples of such research.

MT: You have the 1999 PCT issue of IJHCS to which you contributed. I’m not

at home and I don’t have access to it at the moment, but I think you

will find about eight references there, covering a wide range of topics

from Bill and (?)Tom’s demonstration of perceptual control to control of

self-image and the design of interfaces for pilots.

RM: I should have been more specific. I’m looking for suggestions for research articles that are in relatively high impact psychological journals, such as JEP:HPP and Psychological Science. that describe research that, intentionally or not, can serve as a good example of how to do PCT research. I’m familiar with the research articles published by the “usual suspects” – people who are or have been on CSGNet, have come to CSG meetings in the past, etc. What I’m looking for are articles in high impact journals that are not done by “fans” of PCT but that seem to be reasonable examples of PCT research, even if not done on the basis of an understanding of PCT.Â

RM: By the way, I don’t intend to do a critical review of any of this research. I am only looking for (and will only include in my talk) examples of research that can be used show how PCT type research can be used to study different kinds of purposeful behavior.Â

Best

Rick


Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Rick Marken 2018-09-02_17:22:41]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-09-01_12:22:44 ET]

This journal is more mainstream than the issue of phonology lab reports where it appeared before:

Katseff, Shira; John Houde; & Keith Johnson (2012) Partial compensation for altered auditory feedback: A tradeoff with somatosensory feedback? Language and speech 55.2:295-308. http://www.linguistics.berkeley.edu/~kjohnson/papers/Katseff_Houde_Johnson_2012.pdf

 Thanks!

BestÂ

Rick

···

Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Uf, uf…

···

From: Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 9:57 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Request for Research References

[Rick Marken 2018-09-01_12:57:20]

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 9:19 AM Bruce Nevin csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:

[Bruce Nevin 2018-09-01_12:11:29 ET]

BN: It’s not in a high-impact journal, but the experimental work by Shira Katseff and John Houde that we’ve discussed before is an example that I have reformulated as a proposed PCT model.

RM: Thanks for reminding me. Yes, I was already going to include that. Of course, it’s not a perfect PCT study but it’s definitely on the right track. And that’s all I really want; conventional studies that are on the right track inasmuch as they are monitoring possibly controlled consequences of behavior rather than responses to stimuli.

HB : Rick, you’ll probably never understand PCT and if others will listen to you (like IAPCT board) they’ll get wrong perception of PCT. It’s not “controlled consequences of behavior”, because behavior can’t be controlled (remember Bills’ diagram and definitions) so it does not left controlled consequences. It’s “controlled consequences of organism” which can be seen through actions (behavior) into environment. Let us remember why behavior can’t be controlled.

Bill P. (B:CP, Preface) :

Rather, the central problem has been to find out a plausible model which can behave at all…. For example it will be shown later that the brain does nnot command the muscles to act. That concept implies properties that the neuromuscular system simply does not have… There is just no way the brrain can select a muscle tension that will produce one and only one behavioral effect, even if that tension is accurately produced. The result of this approcah is a model nearly devoid of specific behavioral content.

HB : It seems that some Bills’ statements has to be repeated continuously over years so that you’ll understand. Maybe one day…. But it seems that now you choosed another way oor other means to achieve your wanted goal (dreams) to prove that “behavior is control”. You’ll try to get through top psychological researches “proofs” how behavior is controlled. They anyway show that “behavior is controlled”. So if this is your strategy then I must say that “black clouds” are coming over PCT.

Boris

Best

Rick

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:22 PM Richard Marken csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:

[Rick Marken 2018-08-28_10:21:39]

Martin Taylor (2018.08.28.07.12)–

RM: I am preparing a talk for the IAPCT conference on PCT research
methods. I would like to include some examples of PCT research in the
talk. I have a few examples that I will include but I would like to
get as many as possible. So I’m writing to ask for references to some
good examples of such research.

MT: You have the 1999 PCT issue of IJHCS to which you contributed. I’m not
at home and I don’t have access to it at the moment, but I think you
will find about eight references there, covering a wide range of topics
from Bill and (?)Tom’s demonstration of perceptual control to control of
self-image and the design of interfaces for pilots.

RM: I should have been more specific. I’m looking for suggestions for research articles that are in relatively high impact psychological journals, such as JEP:HPP and Psychological Science. that describe research that, intentionally or not, can serve as a good example of how to do PCT research. I’m familiar with the research articles published by the “usual suspects” – people who are or have been on CSGNet, have come to CSG meetings in the past, etc. What I’m looking for are articles in high impact journals that are not done by “fans” of PCT but that seem to be reasonable examples of PCT research, even if not done on the basis of an understanding of PCT.

RM: By the way, I don’t intend to do a critical review of any of this research. I am only looking for (and will only include in my talk) examples of research that can be used show how PCT type research can be used to study different kinds of purposeful behavior.

Best

Rick

Richard S. Marken

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
–Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Richard S. Marken

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
–Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[From Erling Jorgensen (2018.09.04 1115 EDT)]

Rick Marken 2018-08-28_10:21:39

RM: I should have been more specific. I’m looking for suggestions for research articles that are in relatively high impact psychological journals, such as JEP:HPP and Psychological Science. that describe research that, intentionally or not, can serve as a good example of how to do PCT research. I’m familiar with the research articles published by the “usual suspects” – people who are or have been on CSGNet, have come to CSG meetings in the past, etc. What I’m looking for are articles in high impact journals that are not done by “fans” of PCT but that seem to be reasonable examples of PCT research, even if not done on the basis of an understanding of PCT.

Hi Rick,

EJ: I’m not exactly sure what you’re looking for, but I was very impressed with the following:

Nicolas Franceschini, Frank Ruffier, & Julien Serres (2007). A Bio-Inspired Flying Robot Sheds Light on Insect Piloting Abilities. Current Biology, 17(4), 20 February 2007, 329-335. The link is:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982206026662

EJ: They describe insect flight in terms of a fairly simple “optic flow regulator.” I’m having trouble navigating the distant CSGnet Archives, but back in 2/2007 I discussed Franceschini’s model on CSGnet. It included an attached diagram (that I created in a draw utility with MS-WPS, which is no longer supported by MS Word), which tried to overlay a PCT understanding on the negative feedback loops described by Franceschini. You and I discussed some of how their model was set up on 2/20/2007 (which I notice in a text file draft on my computer.)

EJ: It looks like the authors have continued their work. I notice this elaboration of their model, seemingly from 2009: http://cdn.intechweb.org/pdfs/5990.pdf

All the best,

Erling

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[Rick Marken 2018-09-04_11:37:19]

[From Erling Jorgensen (2018.09.04 1115 EDT)]Â

EJ:Â I’m not exactly sure what you’re looking for, but I was very impressed with the following:Â

Nicolas Franceschini, Frank Ruffier, & Julien Serres (2007). A Bio-Inspired Flying Robot Sheds Light on Insect Piloting Abilities. Current Biology, 17(4), 20 February 2007, 329-335. The link is:Â

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982206026662Â

This is great, thanks. And it has references to other very relevant sounding articles. Just a quick scan suggests that they do get the idea that the behavior they are studying (terrain following) involves the control of a perceptual variable (optic flow). This looks like a good example of testing for a controlled variable using modeling where in this case the model is a robot (toy helicopter). This is just the kind of thing I’m looking for; people who are doing PCT research without knowing it.Â

Thanks again.

Best

Rick

···

Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery