[From Vyv Huddy(1948.4.09.2016)]
VH: I’ve changed the title of this thread from the behavioural illusion as I was very interested in one comment Rick.
···
[From Rick Marken (2016.09.02.0930)]
RM: So you might find that a behavior is actually a non-illusory caused output (the saccade is apparently an example).
VH: Curious why you’d think saccades are caused output? In some situations saccades can be guided voluntarily; the delayed or anti saccade tasks explicitly instruct participants to move their eyes (e.g. in the anti saccade task looking
in the opposite direction a sudden stimulus). One can also choose to follow a target in smooth pursuit task either steadily or in a halting way that then requires so called catch up saccades. These task must involve
control via negative feedback? I’m not sure how the feedback would work? Proprioception of the
eye muscles perhaps? It turns out there are receptors in the eye that might do the job:
VH: I may be off track here as saccades can be extremly fast (> 100ms) so perhaps there isn’t time for feedback? I used to do eye movement research once upon a time and I hadn’t thought much of that in terms of PCT. Keen to learn more.
But the default assumption of PCT-based research is that behavior is the control of perceptual input; it is not caused, constrained, selected or programmed output.
Best
Rick
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Richard Marken
rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:[From Rick Marken (2016.09.01.1320)]
Fred Nickols (2016.09.01.1554 ET)]
FN: I really like your post below, Rick.
RM: Wow, that is so exciting Fred! Thanks. I think this is the first post of mine in weeks that anyone has liked!
FN: I also spotted something that I think might present a problem when explaining PCT to others. Here’s the snippet I pulled from your longer post below:
RM: So the “behavioral illusion” refers to the fact that when you observe the behavior of a closed loop control system – living or artificial – what you see is not necessarily what is actually happening.
FN: It’s the “what you see is not necessarily what is actually happening” that’s giving me pause. I think most people, especially some behaviorists I know, would snort or laugh
and say something like, “Don’t tell me I’m not seeing what I’m seeing.” I think a better way of saying what you’re driving at is to say, “How you explain or account for what you see, especially if you do so in cause-effect or stimulus-response terms, is very
different from the way those same observations are explained by control theory.
RM: Yes! Much better (and more correct) way of saying it! Thanks again Fred!
Best
Rick
More important, in light of control theory, those stimulus-response explanations are very misleading. In control theory, especially perceptual control theory (PCT), those misleading
explanations are referred to as “the behavioral illusion.”
FN: At least that’s the way it seems to me, Rick.
FN: Anyway, thanks again for this post. I like it – a lot.
Regards,
Fred Nickols, Consultant
My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
“Assistance at a Distance”SM
From: Richard Marken [mailto:rsmarken@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 2:09 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Cc: Henry Yin
Subject: Re: The Behavioural Illusion and modelling
[From Rick Marken (2016.09.01.1110)]
cc: Henry Yin, because he understands the importance of the behavioral illusion and I’d like to hear what he thinks of this post.
Martin Taylor (2016.08.30.13.12)–
RM: This is a nice effort to explain the behavioral illusion but I’d like to give my own explanation. I’ll start by defining an illusion as an observation that is not what it appears to be. For example, here is an example of an optical
illusion:
RM: What you observe are two parallel vertical lines that bulge out in the middle. This is an illusion because we know, for other reasons (such as from measuring the distance between the lines at the top, middle and bottom) that there is
no bulge. Another illusion is the observation of a straight, rigid object, like a pencil, bending when placed in water, like so:
RM: Again, this is an illusion because we know, for other reasons (such as feeling along the pencil while it is immersed) that the object is not bent.
RM: Behavioral illusions are illusions in the same way these optical illusions are illusions: they are observations that are not what they appear to be. One example of a behavioral illusion is a “reflex”, such as the patellar of “knee
jerk” reflex:
RM: What you see is a hammer tap below the knee causing the lower leg to kick up. The hammer tap looks like a “stimulus” that is the cause of the knee jerk “response”. It looks like stimulus causes response. The stimulus-response appearance
of reflexes was not considered an illusion until it was shown to be, by other mean. The “other means” was PCT.
RM: The PCT analysis of the stimulus-response illusion starts by noting that behavior is a closed-loop control process organized around the control of the sensory effects of stimuli: controlled variables. When this loop is analyzed correctly
it can be shown (as Powers did in his 1978 Psych Review paper) that the observed causal relationship between stimulus and response is actually the inverse of the causal relationship between the response and the sensory effect of the stimulus; this relationship
is called the feedback function and the sensory effect of the stimulus is the controlled variable.
RM: So the “behavioral illusion” refers to the fact that when you observe the behavior of a closed loop control system – living or artificial – what you see is not necessarily what is actually happening. In the case of the stimulus-response
illusion, the actual causal connection from stimulus to response is “masked” by the fact that it occurs as part of a closed loop control process.
RM: There are actually three versions of the behavioral illusion, which are described in my “Blind Men and the Elephant” paper in “More Mind Readings”. Reflexes, like the patellar, are examples of the
stimulus-response illusion; operant behavior is an example of the reinforcement illusion; and the power law is an example of the
emitted output illusion (called the cognitive illusion in the paper).
RM: How “illusory” any of these behavioral illusions are depends on many factors. For example, the stimulus-response illusion is much more pronounced when the stimulus (disturbance to the controlled variable) is abrupt and strong rather
than gradual and weak (see “A Bucket of Beans” in LCS II); the emitted output illusion is more pronounced when there are no obvious disturbances to the controlled variable. These illusions are also more pronounced when the system under observation controls
well. A system that controls poorly will make only a very weak “response” to a “stimulus”(disturbance) that affects the variable it is controlling. So the stimulus will not give the appearance of causing the response and there will be a very weak stimulus-response
illusion.
RM: All behavioral illusions result from failure to understand the implications of the fact that one is observing at the behavior of a closed loop control system. It’s like looking at the bent pencil illusion above and not knowing the implications
of the fact that the pencil is partly in water. This analogy should make it clear why the behavioral illusion is so important. A researcher who doesn’t know that the refraction of light is different in water and air will start looking for explanations for
why the pencil is bent; a researcher who doesn’t know that a closed loop system acts to control its input will start looking for explanations of why stimuli cause responses, why reinforcement selects responses or how responses are emitted.
RM: The behavioral illusion is important because it shows that behavioral scientists have been studying the different flavors of the illusion – taking them for what is actually happening – for over 100 years.
Best
Rick
–
Richard S. Marken
“The childhood of the human race is far from over. We have a long way to go before most people will understand that what they do for others is just as important to their well-being as what they do for themselves.” – William T. Powers
–
Richard S. Marken
“The childhood of the human race is far from over. We have a long way to go before most people will understand that what they do for others is just as important to their well-being as what they do for themselves.” – William T. Powers
–
Richard S. Marken
“The childhood of the human race is far from over. We have a long way to go before most people will understand that what they do for others is just as important to their well-being as what they do for themselves.” – William T. Powers
