[From Rick Marken (2005.10.20.1455)]
Bryan Thalhammer (2005.10.20.1300 CDT)--
There was a Galilean cynic guy who preached generosity, radical
dissent, and community--not business practices, consumerism,
caveat emptor, and plan B's. This other stuff we hear about
today is just a manifestation of the argument for political-
religious dependence that the Pharisees made before this
guy named their frame.
Nice observation, Bryan. I think this is what happens when one starts
caring more about the size of a group than the content of the group's
message. Christianity went from a very small to a very large group by
expanding its message of peace, humility and forgiveness to one that now
accepts war, venerates the pursuit of wealth and power and condemns people
for being different (in terms of religion, sexual orientation and
ethnicity). I believe that the same thing could happen to PCT if what we
mainly care about is the size of the group of PCT adherents. We have already
seen one effort to grow the group by expanding the PCT message of personal
responsibility to one that encourages blaming others for one's own actions.
And as with the current "expanded" version of Christianity, we saw that
those who have the temerity to point out that some of the expanded concepts
might not be consistent with the message of PCT are condemned as "heretics",
"enemies" or just "creators of animosity".
So while size does matter to me, I would hate to see the enlargement process
do to PCT what it did to Christianity. And the only way I know to prevent
that (if it's preventable) is to expect from myself and others an accounting
of the PCT model and its implications that is as honest and accurate as
possible and to continue testing the model and submitting the results of
those tests to public scrutiny.
Best regards
Rick
···
--
Richard S. Marken
MindReadings.com
Home: 310 474 0313
Cell: 310 729 1400
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[From Rick Marken (2005.10.20.1535)]
Rick Marken (2005.10.20.1455)
So while size does matter to me, I would hate to see the enlargement process
do to PCT what it did to Christianity. And the only way I know to prevent
that (if it's preventable) is to expect from myself and others an accounting
of the PCT model and its implications that is as honest and accurate as
possible and to continue testing the model and submitting the results of
those tests to public scrutiny.
I should mention that I don't think laboratory tests are the only legitimate
way to test the model. I think clinical/counseling procedures, such as David
Goldstein and Tim Carey and his colleagues are doing with MOL, can also
provide good tests of PCT.
Best
Rick
···
--
Richard S. Marken
MindReadings.com
Home: 310 474 0313
Cell: 310 729 1400
--------------------
This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies
of the original message.
[From Bryan Thalhammer (2005.10.21.1925 CDT)]
Thanks Rick,
But I don't think that PCT will suffer from the size of the group using it to conduct research, but rather it will suffer from the size of the group who think they can change or augment it from other than a scientific approach. Opinion is not a way to mess with a scientific theory. Data is the only way we can narrow or generalize a theory. While we often see opinion cloaked in scientific language on CSGnet, the real science will be done in scientific papers, theses and presentations. Some people are just too impatient to see science in emails. It doesn't happen like that.
Now, of course a religion or cult can change and bend according to the way the leader(s) or follower(s) want to go and it doesn't make a hill of beans if they will let you leave. I guess we are seeing the sordid effects of the bending and warping of the Galilean originator's progressive/liberal agenda of love and forgiveness by the larger group into a tool for excluding and marginalizing people who are different (as you say) because they don't conform with the opinion of the larger group.
If indeed PCT can be dealt with in a scientific method of variation and selection, assertion and refutation, and falsifiability and repeatability for creating new knowledge, then we will be OK regardless of the size of the scientific community. So the difference is not size, rather it is method.
I am thinking of 2006, where a potentially sizable Chinese audience is ready for a model of a living control system rather than for an opinion that beings were intelligently designed for some metaphysical purpose. It seems to me that there is a large audience ready for PCT there.
I am wondering if PCT is ready?
--Bryan
···
[Rick Marken (2005.10.20.1455)]
Bryan Thalhammer (2005.10.20.1300 CDT)--
There was a Galilean cynic guy...
Nice observation, Bryan. I think this is what happens when one starts
caring more about the size of a group than the content of the group's
message. Christianity went from a very small to a very large group by
expanding its message of peace, humility and forgiveness to one that now
accepts war, venerates the pursuit of wealth and power and condemns people
for being different (in terms of religion, sexual orientation and
ethnicity). I believe that the same thing could happen to PCT if what we
mainly care about is the size of the group of PCT adherents. We have already
seen one effort to grow the group by expanding the PCT message of personal
responsibility to one that encourages blaming others for one's own actions.
And as with the current "expanded" version of Christianity, we saw that
those who have the temerity to point out that some of the expanded concepts
might not be consistent with the message of PCT are condemned as "heretics",
"enemies" or just "creators of animosity".
So while size does matter to me, I would hate to see the enlargement process
do to PCT what it did to Christianity. And the only way I know to prevent
that (if it's preventable) is to expect from myself and others an accounting
of the PCT model and its implications that is as honest and accurate as
possible and to continue testing the model and submitting the results of
those tests to public scrutiny.
Best regards
Rick