Stefan Balke's diagram

[From Rick Marken (01.03.13.2030)]

Bruce Nevin (010313 22:20 EST)

"Disruptiveness" is not a controlled variable. It is a word for
any of an infinite variety of disturbances.

But that doesn't mean that one of those infinite number of variables
could not be under control. It's true that "disruptiveness" could
refer to many different perceptual variables. But then so could
"cursor position": it could mean x position, y position, position
in x,y coordinates, position relative to a fixed point, k (so it
could be x-k, y-k, etc).

The fact the name of a variable does not unambiguously point
to a particular perceptual variable does not mean that the name
does not refer to a variable that is under control. Also, I don't
think "disruptiveness" is a particularly ambiguous word. I think
most people's idea of the perception being controlled when a
teacher controls "disruptiveness" is very similar to my own:
"disruptiveness" is the degree to which a child is talking to
other students, hitting them, making noise, etc. I think most of
us have seen different degrees of "disruptiveness" exhibited by
our peers when we were in school. I've seen "disruptiveness" that
ranged from none at all (kids sitting quiettly and taking notes)
to a little bit (kids passing notes surreptitiously to their
neighbor) to a lot (I saw one kid physically attack a teacher).
These are the perceptions I have in mind when I talk about
different levels of "disruptiveness". They are different levels
of a variable that certainly could be (and, I think, often is)
controlled.

Best regards

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: marken@mindreadings.com
mindreadings.com

[From Bruce Gregory (2001.0314.1100)]

Rick Marken (01.03.13.2030)

These are the perceptions I have in mind when I talk about
different levels of "disruptiveness". They are different levels
of a variable that certainly could be (and, I think, often is)
controlled.

The variable can be called "order". Disruptions are anything that disturbs
the perception of order. They are often the side effects of controlling
other perceptions and in that sense are unintentional.

BG

[From Rick Marken (01.03.14.0940)]

Me:

These are the perceptions I have in mind when I talk about
different levels of "disruptiveness". They are different levels
of a variable that certainly could be (and, I think, often is)
controlled.

Bruce Gregory (2001.0314.1100)--

The variable can be called "order". Disruptions are anything
that disturbs the perception of order. They are often the
side effects of controlling other perceptions and in that
sense are unintentional.

Yes. Well said.

Best regards

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
MindReadings.com mailto: marken@mindreadings.com
www.mindreadings.com

[From Bruce Nevin (2001.03.14 15:03 EST)]

Bruce Gregory (2001.0314.1100)--

The variable can be called "order". Disruptions are anything that disturbs
the perception of order. They are often the side effects of controlling
other perceptions and in that sense are unintentional.

The variable could be "kids learning what I wish them to learn." There is some plausibility to this, since there is a social contingency on other variables we can reasonably suppose that the teacher is controlling, such as getting paid.

Stefan is the only one of us in a position to determine what it is that teachers in his school are controlling.

         Bruce Nevin

···

At 11:02 03/14/2001 -0500, Bruce Gregory wrote:

[From Bruce Gregory (2001.0314.1549)]

Bruce Nevin (2001.03.14 15:03 EST

Stefan is the only one of us in a position to determine what it is that
teachers in his school are controlling.

I agree. I wasn't rendering an opinion on what the teachers might be
controlling for. I assume they are like most people I know and order is one
of the things we control for. Some of us are more rigid than others in this
regard. Most teachers that I know also control for the perception that
students are "engaged" and enthusiastic about what they are doing.

BG