Successor to CSG-net

[rupert]

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.29 14.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]

The way I see it, we don't need more people to help out.

Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of MyBB whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the plugins to see which ones would be useful for us.

Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS, of course.

If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two folders at iapct.org -- CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share with others as he sees fit).

I'll need command line access to the server and database access through phpmyadmin.

Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will be a good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.

I'm hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.

However, it seems to me that setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done rather immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating the forum with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take Rupert some time.

If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is owned by CSG.
The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have verified the migration process as I wouldn't want to do it in a live environment.

Rupert

[bnhpct]

[From Bruce Nevin (2017.08.29.10:04 ET)]

Martin Taylor 2017.08.28.11.59 –

In the case of ECACS “short-lived” means from February 2004 to March 2014.

My apology. Poorly remembered. “Untimely ended” or “late lamented” would have been more like it.

···

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[From MK (2017.08.28.1215 CET)]

Bruce Nevin (2017.08.27.18:02 ET)–

Recalling last Spring’s thread “Possible new forum (was Re: CSGnet authorship 2017)”, let’s bear in mind the desirability of migrating threads from the short-lived ECACS forum to the new platform.
Maybe it was short-lived for a reason.

Reorganize.

Do not try to resuscitate failed experiments.

Hiking the PCT is best done without needless baggage.

M

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.28.11.59]

There are usually reasons why things happen the way they do. Not all are individually important or generalizable. And language is a malleable artifact…

In the case of ECACS “short-lived” means from February 2004 to March 2014.

I can identify three probable reasons for its final demise. (1) ECACS was an acronym for “Exploration of Complex Adaptive Control Systems”, with the emphasis on “Complex” and “Adaptive”. Although everything in it was about PCT, several of the contributors had felt rather unwelcome on the more purist and less exploratory CSGnet either personally or in respect of the topics they wanted to pursue. Most of the contributors continued to participate on CSGnet talking mainly about more purist single-loop topics, and I suspect that many (among whom I include myself) found it rather a strain to be contributing both to the Forum and to the e-mail conversation. (2) One of the major contributors to ECACS died, and I think that afterwards the number of thought-provoking contributions declined below the critical mass at which members would make a habit of logging in. (3) The developer went out of business without providing a security update, and it must have got hacked, because my ISP told me the domain had been reported as being used for malicious purposes, so I immediately shut it down. I had intended to get it converted to another forum form, but never got around to doing so.

I wouldn’t really call ECACS a failed experiment. It was a forum very much like what is being discussed as a replacement for CSGnet. Members could receive messages as e-mail notices, as e-mail with full content, or just read the Forum. I don’t remember whether we implemented the ability to add to a thread by replying to an e-mail, but we intended to, and may have done. We (the membership generally) did think that facility would be desirable. Once in a while an administrator might think a thread had gone too far off topic, and would split off the deviant part to form a linked but separate thread. We had a designated area for “spats” (not the kind a Victorian gentleman would wear), but if things got too nasty, we could (and did) suspend a member’s posting privileges.

Some of the ECACS concepts were “experiments” in the sense that they were not available to the mailing list, and were tried out over the short (as compared to CSGnet) life of the ECACS forum. For example, right at the top level there was a fixed set of root topics, including Administrative announcements and planning, for documents and links (like Dag’s), for academic discussion of theory, for Applications and Software, and for material such as postings we thought should be kept for posterity.

I wouldn’t say the ECACS concepts all “failed”, and I think some of the threads were quite useful for further reference. In particular, in such a forum, no thread is ever closed, or even forgotten since its title is always on display, and if one has new thoughts on an old topic, the relevance of the addition is immediately obvious. In fact, looking at a little of ECACS this morning to find its starting and stopping dates, I noticed that I had posted a response in 2014 to a thread in which the last previous message was sent in 2004.

I think the traveller is the one best suited to determining what baggage is or is not needed. I would consider lots of old CSGnet threads “needless baggage”, but no way would I censor them from a new forum. Someone else might find them useful. The same is true of several threads (and one or two posters) on the ECACS forum.

---

By the way, I second Bruce’s concept for the forum name. “IAPCTnet” doesn’t roll off the tongue as PCTnet would do. Nor is it as easily explained to a potential new member. PCTnet sounds as though it is about PCT, the “International Association” is about PCT, but IAPCTnet sounds as though it is about the international association, not about PCT.

Martin

Martin

[rsmarken]

[From Rick Marken (2017.08.29.0915)]

···

Rupert Young (2017.08.29 14.00)

RY: Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of MyBB wherever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the plugins to see which ones would be useful for us.

RM: Ah, there’s the rub. What server should MyBB be installed on? It presumably should be one that will be around for awhile, along with continuous management, assuming that PCT does eventually catch on;-) Given that consideration, it seems that the best place to move CSGNet might be some existing platform, like Google Groups. Apparently we had actually tried this in 2014 but it didn’t seem to catch on (the Google CSGNet site is here:Â https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/csgnet). Of course, that still leaves the problem of hosting the existing CSGNet archives but maybe there’s a way to get them up there too.Â

RM: Anyway, the permanence and continuity of the forum would seem to be an important consideration. By the way, I still like the current, good old fashioned CSGNet the best. The main problem with it, from my perspective, is maintaining continuity of management.Â

Best

Rick

Â

Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS, of course.

If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two folders at iapct.org – CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share with others as he sees fit).

Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will be a good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.
However, it seems to me that setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done rather immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating the forum with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take Rupert some time.

I’ll need command line access to the server and database access through phpmyadmin.

 I’m hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.

If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is owned by CSG.

The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live environment.

Rupert

–
Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[DagArchive]

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]

So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from Rupert holds
a key sentence that makes a difference:

I’ll need command line access to
the server and database access through phpmyadmin.

I have looked into that by searching help at
www.powweb.com. It
becomes clear to me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the
server. Logging in to the folder where MyBB is installed is not enough.
We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host iapct.org in
his system if it is similar to mine, or for a new hosting account.
A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be
my suggestion.
Here is where we / I stand:
The domain name iapct.org is held by a separate account at
www.GoDaddy.com.
It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I
suggest a move to
www.namecheap.com
because GoDaddy has become expensive. Because I created an account
separate from my other domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand over
the login info to a new webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the board
get to agree on a hosting company. When set up, Rupert can transfer
iapct.org to the new hosting.
In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move. I will
be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer. With a
stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,
dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic comes to
my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support the
operation if Rupert wants me to.
The key move here is to divorce iapct.org from my system.
My hosting at
www.PowWeb.com is
“unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,
I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts exceeding 25
GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use YouTube or
such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.
www.powweb.com
advertises a low price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95 per
month. When in October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I protested and
mentioned another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan”
and I paid $178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per year, or
$5 per month. I have been very happy with their performance and support
over the years. Checking out

http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml and scrolling down to the
bottom, I see 3 years(__65% OFF! ) $3.88/month* __$139.68.

When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them, protest,
mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One Plan”.

To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will provide the
permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.

Best to all,

Dag

···

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.29
14.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]

The way I see it, we don’t need more people to help
out.

Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of MyBB
whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the plugins to
see which ones would be useful for us.

Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS,
of course.

If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented
yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board
and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two
folders at iapct.org – CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share with others
as he sees fit).

I’ll need command line access to the server and database access through
phpmyadmin.

Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will be a
good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of
addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.

� I’m hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.

However, it seems to me that
setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done rather
immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating the forum
with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take Rupert some
time.

If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is owned
by CSG.

The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have
verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live
environment.

Rupert

[MartinT]

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.14.36]

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]

  So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from

Rupert holds
a key sentence that makes a difference:

    I'll need command

line access to
the server and database access through phpmyadmin.

  I have looked into that by searching help at

www.powweb.com . It
becomes clear to me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the
server. Logging in to the folder where MyBB is installed is not
enough.

  We need another approach.  Either for Rupert to host iapct.org in

his system if it is similar to mine, or for a new hosting
account.
A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT,
would be
my suggestion.

  Here is where we / I stand:

  The domain name iapct.org is held by a separate account at

www.GoDaddy.com .
It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I
suggest a move to
www.namecheap.com because GoDaddy has
become expensive. Because I created an account
separate from my other domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand
over
the login info to a new webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the
board
get to agree on a hosting company. When set up, Rupert can
transfer
iapct.org to the new hosting.

  In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move.

I will
be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer.
With a
stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,
dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic
comes to
my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support
the
operation if Rupert wants me to.

  The key move here is to divorce iapct.org from my system.

  My hosting at

www.PowWeb.com is
“unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,
I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts
exceeding 25
GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use
YouTube or
such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.

  [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/)
  advertises a low price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95

per
month. When in October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I
protested and
mentioned another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan”
and I paid $178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per
year, or
$5 per month. I have been very happy with their performance and
support
over the years. Checking out

http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml and scrolling down
to the
bottom, I see 3 years(__65% OFF! ) $3.88/month* __$139.68.

  When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them,

protest,
mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One Plan”.

  To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will

provide the
permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.
In view of that, I am posting publicly a message I sent to Dag and
Rupert, with minor edits.

···

---

  If there's any problem with Dag's site, I have an unlimited

number of domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has
quite a lot of facilities. A couple of my domains are administered
by someone else with full shell access. Following is a list of
their “one-click installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki,
or Zencart for fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not
free, but the cost is about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them
to keep the site clean of malware, and the “one-click installs”
are free as far as I know (I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t
looked at it for a long time. I might have installed it myself,
because these one-click installs are mostly newer than my
Dreamhost membership).

  Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don't have to

host the domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert
and others to administer it.

Just a thought.

Martin

      MediaWiki, the software behind

Wikipedia, is free collaborative software.

Wiki, Featured

        MediaWiki

      WordPress is a free web-based

software you can use to create a website or blog.

Blog, CMS, Featured

        WordPress

      concrete5 is a website

building tool that is simple for site owners to use, and
powerful for site developers to work with.

CMS, Forum

        concrete5

      dotProject is a web-based

Project Management app designed to provide project layout and
control functions.

Project Management

        dotProject

      Joomla is an award-winning CMS

which enables you to build Web sites and powerful online
applications.

CMS

        Joomla!

      Open Web Analytics (OWA) is

open source web analytics software that you can use to track
and analyze your web sites.

Statistics, Analytics

        Open Web Analytics

      OpenVBX is a web-based, open

source phone system for business.

Telephony

        OpenVBX

      phpBB allows users to create

bulletin boards on their site where members can express their
hearts out.

Forum

        phpBB

      Piwigo is an open source photo

gallery, customize it with themes and plugins.

Gallery

        Piwigo

      WebCalendar is a

highly-customizable and easy-to-use web calendar.

Other

        WebCalendar

      Zen Cart is an open-source

shopping cart system.

E-Commerce

        Zen Cart

  Best to all,



  Dag

    [From Rupert Young

(2017.08.29
14.00)]

    (Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]

      The way I see it, we don't need more people to help

out.

    Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation

of MyBB
whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the
plugins to
see which ones would be useful for us.

      Well, Martin Taylor

for ECACS,
of course.

      If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and

implemented
yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to
the board
and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access
to the two
folders at iapct.org – CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share
with others
as he sees fit).

    I'll need command line access to the server and database access

through
phpmyadmin.

      Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think

it will be a
good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good
number of
addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.

    Â I'm hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.

      However, it seems

to me that
setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done
rather
immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating
the forum
with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take
Rupert some
time.

    If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which

is owned
by CSG.

    The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I

have
verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a
live
environment.

    Rupert

[DagArchive]

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30 PDT)]

Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your site? Who
owns and handles what? The hosting service? I see that Dreamhost is yet
another hosting company (there are many these days) but I don’t see their
pricing. They appear geared to handle everything for you.

Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your post
suggests to me: With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities open
up. Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed in
another folder (separate from MyBB). Karin did just that for our
anniversary 3 1/2 years ago:

http://www.forssell.com/, specifically

http://www.forssell.com/golden/. That is one folder only. The rest of
the site is plain, template based Dreamweaver (as are most of my sites).

I already showed you WordPress at

www.howwefunction.com. That is installed at the root of the site.

WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website building
and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class as I
understand it.

Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase additional
domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs around $10
per year.

Best, Dag

[Martin Taylor
2017.08.29.14.36]

···

In view of that, I am posting
publicly a message I sent to Dag and Rupert, with minor edits.

---

If there’s any problem with Dag’s site, I have an unlimited number of
domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot of
facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone else with
full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click
installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for
fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but the cost is
about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site clean of
malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know
(I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long time. I
might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs are
mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).

Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don’t have to host the
domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and others to
administer it.

Just a thought.�

Martin

MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative
software.

Wiki, Featured

MediaWiki

WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a website or
blog.

Blog, CMS,
Featured

WordPress

concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site owners to
use, and powerful for site developers to work with.

CMS, Forum

concrete5

dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to provide
project layout and control functions.

Project Management

dotProject

Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web sites and
powerful online applications.

CMS

Joomla!

Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software that you
can use to track and analyze your web sites.

Statistics, Analytics

Open Web Analytics

OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.

Telephony

OpenVBX

phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where members
can express their hearts out.

Forum

phpBB

Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes and
plugins.

Gallery

Piwigo

WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web calendar.

Other

WebCalendar

Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.

E-Commerce

Zen Cart

[MartinT]

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.16.29]

  [Dag

Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30 PDT)]

  Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your

site?

I have several, including mmtaylor.net and ecacs.net (now unused,

but still valid).

  Who

owns and handles what?

I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to others

for three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged
until recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again,
they were paid 10 years in advance.

  The hosting service? I see that Dreamhost is yet

another hosting company (there are many these days) but I don’t
see their
pricing. They appear geared to handle everything for you.

The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company was

that I got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for
a real machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility
mattered to me. Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix,
so that was important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything.
But I haven’t really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now
they offer these “one-click installs” if you want to use them. The
advantage to that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them
updated with security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from
source code or install something else from github or somewhere, you
have to keep an eye out for the necessary fixes. I’m not sure
whether I would use a one-click install now, if I were starting
again, but I could if I wanted. Also, they have been very reliable,
and helpful (years ago) when I had problems. Also again, I have
unlimited storage, though they don’t like you using your space for
your personal archives. The have a cloud service for that, if I
remember correctly.

  Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your

post
suggests to me: With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities
open
up. Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed in
another folder (separate from MyBB).

Sure. I have several such separate areas on mmtaylor.net, and on

some other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.

…

  I already showed you WordPress at

www.howwefunction.com . That is installed at the root of the
site.

  WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website

building
and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class as
I
understand it.

Rupert said he didn't want it, which is why I suggested phpBB. But

any other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a
one-click install. You would have to install it in the way you would
do on a machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root
of the site, if I were doing it (and I am definitely not
volunteering).

  Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase

additional
domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs
around $10
per year.

I'm surprised they don't have a price list. My last year's account

shows one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t
know why the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs
money, at $3/month per domain.

Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied

customer who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday
compiler languages and third party software, no worries about disk
usage, and regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer
administrators may have different requirements. I just offer the
suggestion, now with a few more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I
confess that I have felt no need to look elsewhere, so I have no
idea whether better deals or facilities can be found.

Martin

···

  Best, Dag

    [Martin Taylor

2017.08.29.14.36]

  <snip>

    In view of that, I am

posting
publicly a message I sent to Dag and Rupert, with minor edits.

    --------



    If there's any problem with Dag's site, I have an unlimited

number of
domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot
of
facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone
else with
full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click
installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for
fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but
the cost is
about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site
clean of
malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know
(I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long
time. I
might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs
are
mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).

    Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don't have to

host the
domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and
others to
administer it.

    Just a thought.Â



    Martin

    <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/535_icon.png" alt="MediaWiki icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="68">


    MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative

software.

    Wiki, Featured

    MediaWiki

    <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/655_icon.png" alt="WordPress icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="60" height="72">


    WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a

website or
blog.

    Blog, CMS        ,

Featured

    WordPress

    <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/553_icon.png" alt="concrete5 icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">


    concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site

owners to
use, and powerful for site developers to work with.

    CMS, Forum

    concrete5

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    dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to

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    <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/534_icon.png" alt="Joomla! icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="68">


    Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web

sites and
powerful online applications.

    CMS

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    <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/560_icon.png" alt="Open Web Analytics icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">


    Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software

that you
can use to track and analyze your web sites.

    Statistics, Analytics

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    <img src="http://bearweb.ca/apps/277_icon.png" alt="OpenVBX
      icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">


    OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.

    Telephony

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    <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/593_icon.png" alt="phpBB icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">


    phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where

members
can express their hearts out.

    Forum

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    <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/597_icon.png" alt="Piwigo icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">


    Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes

and
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[DagArchive]

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)]

Martin,

Thanks for these clarifications. I have explained what my experience has
been and the costs associated with an account at PowWeb (The only host I
have experience with). You have spelled out lots more about what may be
available under your umbrella (given your domain names).

You may have misunderstood what I meant by bringing up WordPress. Rupert
said he did not want the WordPress forum plugin called bbPress because
the forum would be squished. I understand now and fully agree. That is
not to say that WordPress as a blog and web page program will not or
should not be considered. A WordPress blog can coexist with Rupert’s
preferred MyBB in another folder at
www.iapct.org. You
mentioned PCT Wiki (using MediaWiki?). While Bruce N. has updating the
public Wiki on his agenda, I thought of the possibility of adding a blog.

Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in. BTW, I
wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer. Those of
us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson > 50) years will
end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to or not.

Best, Dag

···

[Martin Taylor
2017.08.29.16.29]

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30
PDT)]

Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your site?

I have several, including mmtaylor.net and ecacs.net (now unused, but
still valid).

Who owns and handles
what?

I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to others for
three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged until
recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again, they were paid
10 years in advance.

The hosting service? I see that
Dreamhost is yet another hosting company (there are many these days) but
I don’t see their pricing. They appear geared to handle everything for
you.

The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company was that I
got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for a real
machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility mattered to me.
Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix, so that was
important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything. But I haven’t
really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now they offer these
“one-click installs” if you want to use them. The advantage to
that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them updated with
security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from source code or install
something else from github or somewhere, you have to keep an eye out for
the necessary fixes. I’m not sure whether I would use a one-click install
now, if I were starting again, but I could if I wanted. Also, they have
been very reliable, and helpful (years ago) when I had problems. Also
again, I have unlimited storage, though they don’t like you using your
space for your personal archives. The have a cloud service for that, if I
remember correctly.

Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your post
suggests to me:� With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities open
up.� Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed in
another folder (separate from MyBB).

Sure. I have several such separate areas on mmtaylor.net, and on some
other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.

…

I already showed you WordPress at

www.howwefunction.com. That is installed at the root of the site.

WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website building
and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class as I
understand it.

Rupert said he didn’t want it, which is why I suggested phpBB. But any
other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a one-click
install. You would have to install it in the way you would do on a
machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root of the site,
if I were doing it (and I am definitely not volunteering).

Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase additional
domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs around $10
per year.

I’m surprised they don’t have a price list. My last year’s account shows
one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t know why
the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs money, at
$3/month per domain.

Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied customer
who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday compiler
languages and third party software, no worries about disk usage, and
regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer administrators may
have different requirements. I just offer the suggestion, now with a few
more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I confess that I have felt no need to
look elsewhere, so I have no idea whether better deals or facilities can
be found.

Martin

Best, Dag

[Martin Taylor
2017.08.29.14.36]

In view of that, I am posting
publicly a message I sent to Dag and Rupert, with minor edits.

---

If there’s any problem with Dag’s site, I have an unlimited number of
domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot of
facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone else with
full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click
installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for
fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but the cost is
about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site clean of
malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know
(I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long time. I
might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs are
mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).

Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don’t have to host the
domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and others to
administer it.

Just a thought.Â

Martin

MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative
software.

Wiki, Featured

MediaWiki

WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a website or
blog.

Blog, CMS,
Featured

WordPress

concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site owners to
use, and powerful for site developers to work with.

CMS, Forum

concrete5

dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to provide
project layout and control functions.

Project Management

dotProject

Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web sites and
powerful online applications.

CMS

Joomla!

Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software that you
can use to track and analyze your web sites.

Statistics, Analytics

Open Web Analytics

OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.

Telephony

OpenVBX

phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where members
can express their hearts out.

Forum

phpBB

Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes and
plugins.

Gallery

Piwigo

WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web calendar.

Other

WebCalendar

Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.

E-Commerce

Zen
Cart

[bnhpct]

[From Bruce Nevin (2017.08.30.09:45 ET)]

Rick Marken (2017.08.29.0915) –

RM: Anyway, the permanence and continuity of the forum would seem to be an important consideration. By the way, I still like the current, good old fashioned CSGNet the best. The main problem with it, from my perspective, is maintaining continuity of management.

A major problem with the present CSGnet is that university support very easily turns to arbitrary and summary rejection. A university IT department under a Dean’s budgetary strictures has no reason to be sympathetic to or supportive of an organization that has no connection to campus activities or curricula. I help manage the website that is now zelligharris.org. Over the years, it has been twice evicted, first from Columbia and later from the University of Pennsylvania. I was fortunate to be able to retain a snapshot each time. It now has a secure home under Dag’s umbrella. IMO we cannot be assured of continuity of management at IU (meaning by ‘management’ hardware and software support for the platform). Dag, and his daughter Karen, offer us that continuity.

A second significant problem, invisible to us because we do not experience the other term of the comparison, is that CSGnet does not use or make available to us the more advanced capabilities of the software (assuming the version of listserv that we have at IU is the same software).

A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be my suggestion.

I strongly agree, and I propose that we budget the $60/year cost as a regular IAPCT expense.

I recommend that the domain name iapct.org be reassigned to the new web host. The web page has the appearance of a memorial to Bill. Worthy though that is, and it should remain an important part of the website, over time the website should be about PCT and about the organization IAPCT. The list of desiderata for getting the organization on its feet and for advancing PCT (subject to amendment, refinement, and extension) suggests ways of reorganizing the website over time.

···

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Dag Forssell csgarchive@pctresources.com wrote:

I’ll need command line access to
the server and database access through phpmyadmin.
[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]
So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from Rupert holds
a key sentence that makes a difference:
I have looked into that by searching help at
www.powweb.com. It
becomes clear to me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the
server. Logging in to the folder where MyBB is installed is not enough.
We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host iapct.org in
his system if it is similar to mine, or for a new hosting account.
A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be
my suggestion.
Here is where we / I stand:
The domain name iapct.org is held by a separate account at
www.GoDaddy.com.
It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I
suggest a move to
www.namecheap.com
because GoDaddy has become expensive. Because I created an account
separate from my other domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand over
the login info to a new webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the board
get to agree on a hosting company. When set up, Rupert can transfer
iapct.org to the new hosting.
In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move. I will
be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer. With a
stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,
dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic comes to
my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support the
operation if Rupert wants me to.
The key move here is to divorce iapct.org from my system.
My hosting at
www.PowWeb.com is
“unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,
I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts exceeding 25
GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use YouTube or
such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.
www.powweb.com
advertises a low price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95 per
month. When in October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I protested and
mentioned another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan”
and I paid $178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per year, or
$5 per month. I have been very happy with their performance and support
over the years. Checking out

http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml and scrolling down to the
bottom, I see 3 years(__65% OFF! ) $3.88/month* __$139.68.

When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them, protest,
mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One Plan”.

To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will provide the
permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.

Best to all,

Dag

The way I see it, we don’t need more people to help
out.
Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS,
of course.

If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented
yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board
and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two
folders at iapct.org – CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share with others
as he sees fit).

Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will be a
good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of
addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.
However, it seems to me that
setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done rather
immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating the forum
with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take Rupert some
time.
[From Rupert Young (2017.08.29
14.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]

Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of MyBB
whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the plugins to
see which ones would be useful for us.

I’ll need command line access to the server and database access through
phpmyadmin.

 I’m hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.

If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is owned
by CSG.

The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have
verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live
environment.

Rupert

[rsmarken]

[From Rick Marken (2017.08.30.1010)]

···

Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)

DF: Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in. BTW, I
wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer. Those of
us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson > 50) years will
end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to or not.

RM: I enthusiastically agree with this. The future success (and value) of CSGNet (or whatever it’s eventually called) depends on getting quality young scientists to participate, regardless of what platform CSGNet is eventually moved to. Henry Yin is certainly one such scientist and Heather Bell is another. I don’t believe either are on CSGNet now but I hope they can be encouraged to participate in what will hopefully be the new, improved CSGNet when it moves to a new platform. (I’m copying this to Henry and Heather in the hopes that they might be willing to contribute to this conversation by volunteering what might encourage them to participate in a newly constituted CSGNet.) I think it will take more than just a new platform to attract young scientists to CSGNet. I think it has to be clear that CSGNet is a forum for high quality scientific discussion of PCT. This may mean that it will have to be moderated.Â

RM: Anyway, stuff to think about.Â

BestÂ

Rick

–
Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[rupert]

Reposting

···

On 29/08/2017 23:42, Dag Forssell
wrote:

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)]

  Martin,



  Thanks for these clarifications. I have explained what my

experience has
been and the costs associated with an account at PowWeb (The only
host I
have experience with). You have spelled out lots more about what
may be
available under your umbrella (given your domain names).

  You may have misunderstood what I meant by bringing up WordPress.

Rupert
said he did not want the WordPress forum plugin called bbPress
because
the forum would be squished. I understand now and fully agree.
That is
not to say that WordPress as a blog and web page program will not
or
should not be considered. A WordPress blog can coexist with
Rupert’s
preferred MyBB in another folder at
www.iapct.org . You
mentioned PCT Wiki (using MediaWiki?). While Bruce N. has updating
the
public Wiki on his agenda, I thought of the possibility of adding
a blog.

  Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in.

BTW, I
wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer.
Those of
us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson > 50)
years will
end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to or
not.

  Best, Dag

    [Martin Taylor

2017.08.29.16.29]

      [Dag Forssell

(2017.08.29 12:30
PDT)]

      Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is

your site?

    I have several, including mmtaylor.net and ecacs.net (now

unused, but
still valid).

      Who owns and

handles
what?

    I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to

others for
three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged
until
recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again, they
were paid
10 years in advance.

      The hosting

service? I see that
Dreamhost is yet another hosting company (there are many these
days) but
I don’t see their pricing. They appear geared to handle
everything for
you.

    The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company

was that I
got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for a
real
machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility
mattered to me.
Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix, so that was
important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything. But I
haven’t
really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now they offer
these
“one-click installs” if you want to use them. The advantage to
that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them updated
with
security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from source code or
install
something else from github or somewhere, you have to keep an eye
out for
the necessary fixes. I’m not sure whether I would use a
one-click install
now, if I were starting again, but I could if I wanted. Also,
they have
been very reliable, and helpful (years ago) when I had problems.
Also
again, I have unlimited storage, though they don’t like you
using your
space for your personal archives. The have a cloud service for
that, if I
remember correctly.

      Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them),

your post
suggests to me:Â With a dedicated IAPCT account,
opportunities open
up. Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed
in
another folder (separate from MyBB).

    Sure. I have several such separate areas on mmtaylor.net, and on

some
other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.

…

      I already showed you WordPress at

www.howwefunction.com . That is installed at the root of
the site.

      WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website

building
and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class
as I
understand it.

    Rupert said he didn't want it, which is why I suggested phpBB.

But any
other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a
one-click
install. You would have to install it in the way you would do on
a
machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root of
the site,
if I were doing it (and I am definitely not volunteering).

      Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase

additional
domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs
around $10
per year.

    I'm surprised they don't have a price list. My last year's

account shows
one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t
know why
the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs money,
at
$3/month per domain.

    Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied

customer
who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday
compiler
languages and third party software, no worries about disk usage,
and
regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer
administrators may
have different requirements. I just offer the suggestion, now
with a few
more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I confess that I have felt
no need to
look elsewhere, so I have no idea whether better deals or
facilities can
be found.

    Martin

      Best, Dag

        [Martin Taylor

2017.08.29.14.36]

      <snip>

        In view of that,

I am posting
publicly a message I sent to Dag and Rupert, with minor
edits.

        --------



        If there's any problem with Dag's site, I have an unlimited

number of
domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a
lot of
facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by
someone else with
full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click
installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart
for
fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free,
but the cost is
about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site
clean of
malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I
know
(I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a
long time. I
might have installed it myself, because these one-click
installs are
mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).

        Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don't

have to host the
domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and
others to
administer it.

        Just a thought.Â



        Martin

        ![MediaWiki icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/535_icon.png)
         

        MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free

collaborative
software.

        Wiki, Featured

        MediaWiki

        ![WordPress icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/655_icon.png)
         

        WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create

a website or
blog.

        Blog, CMS            ,

Featured

        WordPress

        ![concrete5 icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/553_icon.png)
         

        concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site

owners to
use, and powerful for site developers to work with.

        CMS, Forum

        concrete5

        ![dotProject icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/522_icon.png)
         

        dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to

provide
project layout and control functions.

        Project Management

        dotProject

        ![Joomla! icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/534_icon.png)
         

        Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build

Web sites and
powerful online applications.

        CMS

        Joomla!

        ![Open Web Analytics icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/560_icon.png)
         

        Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics

software that you
can use to track and analyze your web sites.

        Statistics, Analytics

        Open Web Analytics

        ![OpenVBX                icon](http://bearweb.ca/apps/277_icon.png) 

        OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for

business.

        Telephony

        OpenVBX

        ![phpBB icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/593_icon.png)
         

        phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site

where members
can express their hearts out.

        Forum

        phpBB

        ![Piwigo icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/597_icon.png)
         

        Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with

themes and
plugins.

        Gallery

        Piwigo

        ![WebCalendar icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/458_icon.png)
         

        WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web

calendar.

        Other

        WebCalendar

        ![Zen Cart icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/160_icon.png)
         

        Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.

        E-Commerce

                      Zen

Cart

[DagArchive]

[From Dag Forssell (2017.08.31 23:20 PDT)]

Rupert sent me a direct note yesterday, saying that he had replied to
CSGnet with some particulars. I gave him a brief call and learned that
his current host is 1&1, but his post to CSGnet with more detail has
not arrived.

I had already begun searching for information on hosting providers. I am
attaching what I have found about my provider, PowWeb (not good at all),
Rupert’s current provider 1&1 (not good either), SiteGround (super)
and Bluehost (not very). Four review PDFs attached.

If the Control Panel called cPanel (see link to demo) is OK with Rupert,
I suggest that IAPCT go with an account at SiteGround. They have a
presence in London as well as the U.S. I have a call in to Sales and
expect them to call back, but is is close to midnight, so they may be
slow about that. My question will be whether it is easy to upgrade from
the basic account, which is limited to hosting one single web site, to
the GrowBig account, which allows for multiple PCT websites. I suspect
they will accomodate that with ease. Either account can be afforded by
IAPCT, methinketh. See $.

When my account with PowWeb reaches the end of my current contract in
October 2019, I expect to port all my sites to SiteGround.

Most of the info I cite comes from a site called

http://www.whoishostingthis.com

Sites of this nature make their money from finders fees offered by
companies they point to. One may suspect that their most highly
recommended top 10 is the one that offers the biggest bounty.

So I googled again and found

https://webhostinggeeks.com/providers/ which provides startling
information about various hosts. See screen shots. To me, this site
appears credible and helpful for the selection of a good host.

Best, Dag

PowWeb review.pdf (113 KB)

SiteGround review.pdf (290 KB)

1and1 review.pdf (299 KB)

Bluehost review.pdf (87.2 KB)

···

At 07:08 AM 8/30/2017, you wrote:

[From Bruce Nevin
(2017.08.30.09:45 ET)]

Rick Marken (2017.08.29.0915) –

RM: Anyway, the permanence and continuity of the forum would seem to
be an important consideration. By the way, I still like the current, good
old fashioned CSGNet the best. The main problem with it, from my
perspective, is maintaining continuity of management.Â

A major problem with the present CSGnet is that university support
very easily turns to arbitrary and summary rejection. A university IT
department under a Dean’s budgetary strictures has no reason to be
sympathetic to or supportive of an organization that has no connection to
campus activities or curricula. I help manage the website that is now
zelligharris.org. Over the years,
it has been twice evicted, first from Columbia and later from the
University of Pennsylvania. I was fortunate to be able to retain a
snapshot each time. It now has a secure home under Dag’s umbrella. IMO we
cannot be assured of continuity of management at IU (meaning by
‘management’ hardware and software support for the platform). Dag, and
his daughter Karen, offer us that continuity.

A second significant problem, invisible to us because we do not
experience the other term of the comparison, is that CSGnet does not use
or make available to us the more advanced capabilities of the software
(assuming the version of listserv that we have at IU is the same
software).

 A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by
IAPCT, would be my suggestion.

I strongly agree, and I propose that we budget the $60/year cost as a
regular IAPCT expense.Â

I recommend that the domain name iapct.org
be reassigned to the new web host. The web page has the appearance of a
memorial to Bill. Worthy though that is, and it should remain an
important part of the website, over time the website should be about PCT
and about the organization IAPCT. The

list of desiderata for getting the organization on its feet and for
advancing PCT (subject to amendment, refinement, and extension) suggests
ways of reorganizing the website over time.Â

/Bruce

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Dag Forssell > < > csgarchive@pctresources.com> wrote:
[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]

So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from Rupert
holds a key sentence that makes a difference:

I’ll need command line access to the server and database access
through phpmyadmin.

I have looked into that by searching help at
www.powweb.com. It becomes clear to
me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the server. Logging in to
the folder where MyBB is installed is not enough.

We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host
iapct.org in his system if it is similar
to mine, or for a new hosting account. A new hosting account,
exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be my suggestion.

Here is where we / I stand:

The domain name iapct.org is held by a
separate account at
www.GoDaddy.com.
It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I
suggest a move to
www.namecheap.com because GoDaddy
has become expensive. Because I created an account separate from my other
domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand over the login info to a new
webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the board get to agree on a hosting
company. When set up, Rupert can transfer
iapct.org to the new hosting.

In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move. I
will be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer. With
a stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,
dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic comes to
my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support the
operation if Rupert wants me to.

The key move here is to divorce
iapct.org from my system.

My hosting at www.PowWeb.com is
“unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,
I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts exceeding 25
GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use YouTube or
such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.

www.powweb.com advertises a low
price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95 per month. When in
October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I protested and mentioned
another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan” and I paid
$178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per year, or $5 per
month. I have been very happy with their performance and support over the
years. Checking out

http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml and scrolling down to the
bottom, I see 3 years(65% OFF! ) $3.88/month*Â
$139.68.

When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them,
protest, mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One
Plan”.

To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will provide
the permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.

Best to all,

Dag

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.29 14.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]

The way I see it, we don’t need more people to help
out.

Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of
MyBB whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the
plugins to see which ones would be useful for us.

Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS, of course.

If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented
yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board
and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two
folders at iapct.org – CSGnet and Forum.
(Rupert can share with others as he sees fit).

I’ll need command line access to the server and database access
through phpmyadmin.

Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will
be a good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of
addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.

 I’m hoping that I can set up users as part of the
migration.

However, it seems to me that setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can
and should be done rather immediately. Sorting out the existing archive
and populating the forum with the result is a secondary effort that
likely will take Rupert some time.

If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is
owned by CSG.
The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have
verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live
environment.

Rupert

[DagArchive]

[Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 06:20 PDT)]

Thanks Rupert,

Yes, I have the official IAPCT domain name registered, but it sits in its
own account at GoDaddy. As reported in [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30
PDT)], it is paid up through July 2021. I will transfer as appropriate.
Super easy.

My experience with PowWeb has been OK, yours with 1&1 OK, but it
appears to me that the cost of using SiteGround with its stellar reviews
is about the same as 1&1. When I called in the afternoon, I got a
person on the line almost immediately. Could not call 1&1. So if it
is up to me, I would go with SiteGround.

I trust you, Bruce, and any other decision makers will review the PDFs I
posted.

What is best? Selecting the basic account that allows for only one site,
or the GrowBig account? It occurs to me that with the GrowBig
account, we can consider having PCTnet.org rather than forum.iapct.org or
pctnet.iapct.org.

Checking namecheap.com right now, I see

“pctnet.org Available $6.88 per year, retail
$12.48 per year.”

I think that is their way of saying $6.88 first year, $12.48 when you
renew.

“pctnet.net Available $12.88 per
year.”

To me, PCTnet.org would be preferable. The shorter URL the better.

I look forward to responses to my post last night as well as this one.

Setting up the account can be done by Bruce Nevin, Rupert Young,
myself… Whatever is most convenient and appropriate.

Best, Dag

···

At 10:04 PM 8/31/2017, you wrote:

Reposting

On 30 August 2017 22:05:47 BST, Rupert Young > rupert@perceptualrobots.com wrote:

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.30 22.00)]

There seem to various options for hosting the forum. I’d be happy to
do it myself, but I think the hosting service should be owned by the
IAPCT organisation rather than an individual, for the sake of
responsibility, continuity and administration. Likewise for the domain
name. Is iapct.org the official domain of IAPCT? Do I understand
correctly that it is owned by Dag, but He is happy to transfer the
ownership to IAPCT?

In terms of hosting providers I use 1and1 and find them pretty good.
They have functionality to install many types of application, including
Wordpress and MyBB, with (almost) one click. Whichever service is chosen
it would make things easier if they have this functionality. The forum
and website could exist side by side under the same domain, with the
forum on a sub-domain.

Regards,

Rupert

On 29/08/2017 23:42, Dag Forssell wrote:

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)]

Martin,

Thanks for these clarifications. I have explained what my experience
has been and the costs associated with an account at PowWeb (The only
host I have experience with). You have spelled out lots more about what
may be available under your umbrella (given your domain names).

You may have misunderstood what I meant by bringing up WordPress.
Rupert said he did not want the WordPress forum plugin called bbPress
because the forum would be squished. I understand now and fully agree.
That is not to say that WordPress as a blog and web page program will not
or should not be considered. A WordPress blog can coexist with Rupert’s
preferred MyBB in another folder at
www.iapct.org. You
mentioned PCT Wiki (using MediaWiki?). While Bruce N. has updating the
public Wiki on his agenda, I thought of the possibility of adding a blog.

Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in.
BTW, I wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer.
Those of us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson > 50)
years will end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to
or not.

Best, Dag

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.16.29]

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30 PDT)]

Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your site?

I have several, including mmtaylor.net and ecacs.net (now unused, but
still valid).

Who owns and handles what?

I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to others for
three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged until
recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again, they were paid
10 years in advance.

The hosting service? I see that Dreamhost is yet another hosting
company (there are many these days) but I don’t see their pricing. They
appear geared to handle everything for you.

The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company was
that I got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for a
real machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility mattered to
me. Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix, so that was
important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything. But I haven’t
really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now they offer these
“one-click installs” if you want to use them. The advantage to
that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them updated with
security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from source code or install
something else from github or somewhere, you have to keep an eye out for
the necessary fixes. I’m not sure whether I would use a one-click install
now, if I were starting again, but I could if I wanted. Also, they have
been very reliable, and helpful (years ago) when I had problems. Also
again, I have unlimited storage, though they don’t like you using your
space for your personal archives. The have a cloud service for that, if I
remember correctly.

Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your
post suggests to me:� With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities
open up.� Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed
in another folder (separate from MyBB).

Sure. I have several such separate areas on mmtaylor.net, and on some
other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.

…

I already showed you WordPress at

www.howwefunction.com. That is installed at the root of the site.

WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website
building and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class
as I understand it.

Rupert said he didn’t want it, which is why I suggested phpBB. But
any other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a one-click
install. You would have to install it in the way you would do on a
machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root of the site,
if I were doing it (and I am definitely not volunteering).

Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase
additional domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs
around $10 per year.

I’m surprised they don’t have a price list. My last year’s account
shows one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t know
why the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs money, at
$3/month per domain.

Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied
customer who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday
compiler languages and third party software, no worries about disk usage,
and regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer administrators
may have different requirements. I just offer the suggestion, now with a
few more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I confess that I have felt no
need to look elsewhere, so I have no idea whether better deals or
facilities can be found.

Martin

Best, Dag

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.14.36]

In view of that, I am posting publicly a message I sent to Dag and
Rupert, with minor edits.

---

If there’s any problem with Dag’s site, I have an unlimited number of
domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot of
facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone else with
full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click
installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for
fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but the cost is
about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site clean of
malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know
(I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long time. I
might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs are
mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).

Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don’t have to host
the domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and others to
administer it.

Just a thought.Â

Martin

MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative
software.
Wiki, Featured
MediaWiki

WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a
website or blog.
Blog, CMS,
Featured
WordPress

concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site owners
to use, and powerful for site developers to work with.
CMS, Forum
concrete5

dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to provide
project layout and control functions.
Project Management
dotProject

Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web sites
and powerful online applications.
CMS
Joomla!

Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software that
you can use to track and analyze your web sites.
Statistics, Analytics
Open Web Analytics

OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.
Telephony
OpenVBX

phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where
members can express their hearts out.
Forum
phpBB

Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes and
plugins.
Gallery
Piwigo

WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web
calendar.
Other
WebCalendar

Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.
E-Commerce
Zen
Cart

Regards,

Dr Rupert Young

www.perceptualrobots.com

–

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[bnhpct]

[From Bruce Nevin (2017.09.01.10:43 ET)]

I happily defer to you two (Dag and Rupert) for the implementation.

Those reviews are persuasive. I agree with your recommendation of SiteGround. The market share stats displayed at the ends of the PDFs amount to a kind of crowd-sourced review, impressive. I have some familiarity with 1and1, which the review says is ‘respected’. The big old (1988) incumbent losing ground to the (2004) newcomer.Â

SiteGround, a sharply rising growth curve with 709,688 accounts gained, 368,145 lost.

1and1, a precipitously falling growth curve with 4.6M accounts gained, 8.6M lost

From Wikipedia:

SiteGround is a web hosting company founded in 2004 and servicing more than 500,000 domains worldwide. It provides shared hosting, cloud hosting and dedicated servers. Currently, the company employs over 400 people.

1&1 Internet, founded in 1988,^[3] is a web hosting company owned by United Internet, a German Internet company. Its CEO is Robert Hoffmann.^[4] The company is one of the world’s largest web hosting companies, with data centers in Europe and in Lenexa, Kansas.

Though it is smaller, and headquartered in Bulgaria, I am not particularly worried about the stability of the company. In the event they were to go under (unlikely–demand for web hosting on the Internet is not going away any time soon), we retain full backup and porting to a new provider is not a big problem.

···

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 2:25 AM, Dag Forssell csgarchive@pctresources.com wrote:

[From Dag Forssell (2017.08.31 23:20 PDT)]

Rupert sent me a direct note yesterday, saying that he had replied to
CSGnet with some particulars. I gave him a brief call and learned that
his current host is 1&1, but his post to CSGnet with more detail has
not arrived.

I had already begun searching for information on hosting providers. I am
attaching what I have found about my provider, PowWeb (not good at all),
Rupert’s current provider 1&1 (not good either), SiteGround (super)
and Bluehost (not very). Four review PDFs attached.

If the Control Panel called cPanel (see link to demo) is OK with Rupert,
I suggest that IAPCT go with an account at SiteGround. They have a
presence in London as well as the U.S. I have a call in to Sales and
expect them to call back, but is is close to midnight, so they may be
slow about that. My question will be whether it is easy to upgrade from
the basic account, which is limited to hosting one single web site, to
the GrowBig account, which allows for multiple PCT websites. I suspect
they will accomodate that with ease. Either account can be afforded by
IAPCT, methinketh. See $.

When my account with PowWeb reaches the end of my current contract in
October 2019, I expect to port all my sites to SiteGround.

Most of the info I cite comes from a site called

http://www.whoishostingthis.com Â

Sites of this nature make their money from finders fees offered by
companies they point to. One may suspect that their most highly
recommended top 10 is the one that offers the biggest bounty.

So I googled again and found

https://webhostinggeeks.com/providers/ which provides startling
information about various hosts. See screen shots. To me, this site
appears credible and helpful for the selection of a good host.

Best, Dag

At 07:08 AM 8/30/2017, you wrote:

[From Bruce Nevin
(2017.08.30.09:45 ET)]

Rick Marken (2017.08.29.0915) –

RM: Anyway, the permanence and continuity of the forum would seem to
be an important consideration. By the way, I still like the current, good
old fashioned CSGNet the best. The main problem with it, from my
perspective, is maintaining continuity of management.Â

BN> A major problem with the present CSGnet is that university support
very easily turns to arbitrary and summary rejection. A university IT
department under a Dean’s budgetary strictures has no reason to be
sympathetic to or supportive of an organization that has no connection to
campus activities or curricula. I help manage the website that is now
zelligharris.org. Over the years,
it has been twice evicted, first from Columbia and later from the
University of Pennsylvania. I was fortunate to be able to retain a
snapshot each time. It now has a secure home under Dag’s umbrella. IMO we
cannot be assured of continuity of management at IU (meaning by
‘management’ hardware and software support for the platform). Dag, and
his daughter Karen, offer us that continuity.

A second significant problem, invisible to us because we do not
experience the other term of the comparison, is that CSGnet does not use
or make available to us the more advanced capabilities of the software
(assuming the version of listserv that we have at IU is the same
software).

DF>Â A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by
IAPCT, would be my suggestion.

I strongly agree, and I propose that we budget the $60/year cost as a
regular IAPCT expense.Â

I recommend that the domain name iapct.org
be reassigned to the new web host. The web page has the appearance of a
memorial to Bill. Worthy though that is, and it should remain an
important part of the website, over time the website should be about PCT
and about the organization IAPCT. The

list of desiderata for getting the organization on its feet and for
advancing PCT (subject to amendment, refinement, and extension) suggests
ways of reorganizing the website over time.Â

/Bruce

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Dag Forssell
<
csgarchive@pctresources.com> wrote:

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]

I’ll need command line access to the server and database access
through phpmyadmin.
So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from Rupert
holds a key sentence that makes a difference:

I have looked into that by searching help at
www.powweb.com. It becomes clear to
me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the server. Logging in to
the folder where MyBB is installed is not enough.

We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host
iapct.org in his system if it is similar
to mine, or for a new hosting account. A new hosting account,
exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be my suggestion.

Here is where we / I stand:

The domain name iapct.org is held by a
separate account at
www.GoDaddy.com.

It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I
suggest a move to
www.namecheap.com because GoDaddy
has become expensive. Because I created an account separate from my other
domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand over the login info to a new
webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the board get to agree on a hosting
company. When set up, Rupert can transfer
iapct.org to the new hosting.

In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move. I
will be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer. With
a stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,
dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic comes to
my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support the
operation if Rupert wants me to.

The key move here is to divorce
iapct.org from my system.

My hosting at www.PowWeb.com is
“unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,
I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts exceeding 25
GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use YouTube or
such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.

www.powweb.com advertises a low
price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95 per month. When in
October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I protested and mentioned
another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan” and I paid
$178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per year, or $5 per
month. I have been very happy with their performance and support over the
years. Checking out

http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml and scrolling down to the
bottom, I see 3 years(65% OFF! ) $3.88/month*ÂÂ
$139.68.

When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them,
protest, mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One
Plan”.

To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will provide
the permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.

Best to all,

Dag

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.29 14.00)]

The way I see it, we don’t need more people to help
out.
(Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]

Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS, of course.

If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented
yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board
and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two
folders at iapct.org – CSGnet and Forum.
(Rupert can share with others as he sees fit).
Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of
MyBB whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the
plugins to see which ones would be useful for us.

Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will
be a good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of
addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.
I’ll need command line access to the server and database access
through phpmyadmin.

However, it seems to me that setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can
and should be done rather immediately. Sorting out the existing archive
and populating the forum with the result is a secondary effort that
likely will take Rupert some time.
 I’m hoping that I can set up users as ppart of the
migration.

If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is
owned by CSG.
The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have
verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live
environment.

Rupert

[bnhpct]

[From Bruce Nevin 2017.09.01.10:54 ET)]

I agree, go for the account that gives the email forum its own domain.

I like pct.net, but it appears that a company called OurDomains.com has bought up the pct.net domain among others, looking for someone to make an offer. Here’s the return from whois:

pct.net

  Domain Name: PCT.NET

  Registry Domain ID: 734945_DOMAIN_NET-VRSN

  Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.ourdomains.com

  Registrar URL: http://www.ourdomains.com

  Updated Date: 2017-06-07T06:37:19Z

  Creation Date: 1998-01-06T05:00:00Z

  Registry Expiry Date: 2019-01-05T05:00:00Z

  Registrar: Ourdomains Limited

  Registrar IANA ID: 1654

  Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@22.cn

  Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +86.57188276020

  Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited

  Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited

  Name Server: NS1.4.CN

  Name Server: NS2.4.CN

  DNSSEC: unsigned

  URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://www.icann.org/wicf/

Last update of whois database: 2017-09-01T14:48:37ZÂ

The page is mostly in Chinese (maybe appealing to a market in China but not a Chinese company?), and https://www.ourdomains.com says “make an offer”.

···

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Dag Forssell csgarchive@pctresources.com wrote:

[Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 06:20 PDT)]

Thanks Rupert,

Yes, I have the official IAPCT domain name registered, but it sits in its
own account at GoDaddy. As reported in [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30
PDT)], it is paid up through July 2021. I will transfer as appropriate.
Super easy.

My experience with PowWeb has been OK, yours with 1&1 OK, but it
appears to me that the cost of using SiteGround with its stellar reviews
is about the same as 1&1. When I called in the afternoon, I got a
person on the line almost immediately. Could not call 1&1. So if it
is up to me, I would go with SiteGround.

I trust you, Bruce, and any other decision makers will review the PDFs I
posted.

What is best? Selecting the basic account that allows for only one site,
or the GrowBig account? It occurs to me that with the GrowBig
account, we can consider having PCTnet.org rather than forum.iapct.org or
pctnet.iapct.org.

Checking namecheap.com right now, I see

“pctnet.org  Available $6.88 per year, retail
$12.48 per year.”

I think that is their way of saying $6.88 first year, $12.48 when you
renew.

“pctnet.net  Available $12.88 per
year.”

To me, PCTnet.org would be preferable. The shorter URL the better.

I look forward to responses to my post last night as well as this one.

Setting up the account can be done by Bruce Nevin, Rupert Young,
myself… Whatever is most convenient and appropriate.

Best, Dag

At 10:04 PM 8/31/2017, you wrote:

Reposting

On 30 August 2017 22:05:47 BST, Rupert Young
rupert@perceptualrobots.com wrote:

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.30 22.00)]

There seem to various options for hosting the forum. I’d be happy to
do it myself, but I think the hosting service should be owned by the
IAPCT organisation rather than an individual, for the sake of
responsibility, continuity and administration. Likewise for the domain
name. Is iapct.org the official domain of IAPCT? Do I understand
correctly that it is owned by Dag, but He is happy to transfer the
ownership to IAPCT?

In terms of hosting providers I use 1and1 and find them pretty good.
They have functionality to install many types of application, including
Wordpress and MyBB, with (almost) one click. Whichever service is chosen
it would make things easier if they have this functionality. The forum
and website could exist side by side under the same domain, with the
forum on a sub-domain.

Regards,

Rupert

On 29/08/2017 23:42, Dag Forssell wrote:

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)]

Martin,

Thanks for these clarifications. I have explained what my experience
has been and the costs associated with an account at PowWeb (The only
host I have experience with). You have spelled out lots more about what
may be available under your umbrella (given your domain names).

You may have misunderstood what I meant by bringing up WordPress.
Rupert said he did not want the WordPress forum plugin called bbPress
because the forum would be squished. I understand now and fully agree.
That is not to say that WordPress as a blog and web page program will not
or should not be considered. A WordPress blog can coexist with Rupert’s
preferred MyBB in another folder at
www.iapct.org. You
mentioned PCT Wiki (using MediaWiki?). While Bruce N. has updating the
public Wiki on his agenda, I thought of the possibility of adding a blog.

Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in.
BTW, I wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer.
Those of us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson > 50)
years will end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to
or not.

Best, Dag

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.16.29]

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30 PDT)]

Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your site?

I have several, including mmtaylor.net and ecacs.net (now unused, but
still valid).

Who owns and handles what?

I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to others for
three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged until
recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again, they were paid
10 years in advance.

The hosting service? I see that Dreamhost is yet another hosting
company (there are many these days) but I don’t see their pricing. They
appear geared to handle everything for you.

The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company was
that I got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for a
real machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility mattered to
me. Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix, so that was
important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything. But I haven’t
really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now they offer these
“one-click installs” if you want to use them. The advantage to
that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them updated with
security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from source code or install
something else from github or somewhere, you have to keep an eye out for
the necessary fixes. I’m not sure whether I would use a one-click install
now, if I were starting again, but I could if I wanted. Also, they have
been very reliable, and helpful (years ago) when I had problems. Also
again, I have unlimited storage, though they don’t like you using your
space for your personal archives. The have a cloud service for that, if I
remember correctly.

Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your
post suggests to me: With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities
open up. Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed
in another folder (separate from MyBB).

Sure. I have several such separate areas on mmtaylor.net, and on some
other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.

…

I already showed you WordPress at

www.howwefunction.com. That is installed at the root of the site.

WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website
building and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class
as I understand it.

Rupert said he didn’t want it, which is why I suggested phpBB. But
any other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a one-click
install. You would have to install it in the way you would do on a
machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root of the site,
if I were doing it (and I am definitely not volunteering).

Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase
additional domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs
around $10 per year.

I’m surprised they don’t have a price list. My last year’s account
shows one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t know
why the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs money, at
$3/month per domain.

Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied
customer who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday
compiler languages and third party software, no worries about disk usage,
and regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer administrators
may have different requirements. I just offer the suggestion, now with a
few more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I confess that I have felt no
need to look elsewhere, so I have no idea whether better deals or
facilities can be found.

Martin

Best, Dag

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.14.36]

In view of that, I am posting publicly a message I sent to Dag and
Rupert, with minor edits.

---

If there’s any problem with Dag’s site, I have an unlimited number of
domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot of
facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone else with
full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click
installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for
fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but the cost is
about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site clean of
malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know
(I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long time. I
might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs are
mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).

Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don’t have to host
the domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and others to
administer it.

Just a thought.Â

Martin

Â
MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative
software.
Wiki, Featured
MediaWiki

Â
WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a
website or blog.
Blog, CMS,
Featured
WordPress

Â
concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site owners
to use, and powerful for site developers to work with.
CMS, Forum
concrete5

Â
dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to provide
project layout and control functions.
Project Management
dotProject

Â
Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web sites
and powerful online applications.
CMS
Joomla!

Â
Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software that
you can use to track and analyze your web sites.
Statistics, Analytics
Open Web Analytics

Â
OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.
Telephony
OpenVBX

Â
phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where
members can express their hearts out.
Forum
phpBB

Â
Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes and
plugins.
Gallery
Piwigo

Â
WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web
calendar.
Other
WebCalendar

Â
Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.
E-Commerce
Zen
Cart

Regards,

Dr Rupert Young

www.perceptualrobots.com

–

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[rupert]

[From Rupert Young (2017.09.01 16.15)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.08.31 23:20 PDT)]

If the Control Panel called cPanel (see link to demo) is OK with Rupert, I suggest that IAPCT go with an account at SiteGround.

Sure. Do they offer MyBB as an application?

Rupert

[DagArchive]

[Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]

Rupert, (and Bruce,)

The MyBB site, Install - MyBB Documentation says

Preparation

Downloading the MyBB Files
First, download the latest MyBB package from the MyBB downloads page
After downloading the zip file, unzip/decompress the file.
On Windows you can either use the built in utility or an application such as 7-zip
... it goes on.

As I understand it, a host does not have to have a ready-made install package.
You can download and install MyBB yourself. I had a chat with PowWeb and sent it as a pdf. To me, the PowWeb technician confirmed this understanding.

To be sure, and for you to get peace of mind, I would suggest you call SiteGround in London yourself to ask this question.

Discover SiteGround's Company Culture

SiteGround Hosting Ltd.
3rd Floor, 11-12 St. James's Square
London SW1Y 4LB

  +44.800.8620379

Well, given that it is past midnight your way, I just called +1 800.828.9231.
A store with some 300 programs will appear in the cPanel once the account is set up. You can do a 1-click install, Debra said.

Again locating the cPanel demo (Web Hosting Crafted For Top Website Performance & Speed - SiteGround link at end of para) and clicking on autoinstallers, Softaculous, I find http://siteground190.com:2082/cpsess2567893678/frontend/Crystal/softaculous/index.live.php?act=software&soft=36

Related scripts: phpBB SMF AEF Vanilla PunBB.

Looks like it is clear sailing. Pretty good all around.

I suppose this is one reason for their super ratings.

I see that they run a U.S. holiday promotion -- Labor Day. That is this weekend. The GrowBig package is $1.40 less at $4.55 per month. Not so fast. That is only for a 12 month buy. For 36 months, the total is $214.20. I am pretty sure that is what we want.

Bruce endorsed this and defers to you and I.

Given that I have the domain registration and current setup at my fingertips, and also that it will be easy for Rick to write me a check with reimbursement, I propose that I set up the account and have SiteGround transfer iapct.org. I will register board@iapct.org as contact name (I almost never hear from PowWeb and don't expect the board will hear from SiteGround until the account needs to be renewed.) Once the account is in place, I will set up email forwarding: board@iapct.org to the board and yourself. For account name and address I suggest I enter Bruce Nevin's name and coordinates.

When done, I will forward Godaddy registration to Bruce with cc: to you, and the entire SiteGround account particulars to the two of you. Once done, you will control the user name and password for the account. For the existing site, I will zip it all and send it to you so you get the template and cs.css file that goes with the current setup. Created in Dreamweaver, which you now have.

I will call first and try to claim the benefit of the Labor Day promotion.
Do we have any questions?

Here is one: GrowBig comes with one year free Wildcard SSL, a $30 value, they say. I don't think our system calls for that. Regular SSL suffices. We shall not set that up for autorenew, methinketh.

Bruce posted some info regarding PCT.net. Will Bruce make an offer?

How about PCTnet.org? Would bruce want to register a domain name for the Forum so it will have a separate domain?

Standing by,

Dag

···

[From Rupert Young (2017.09.01 16.15)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.08.31 23:20 PDT)]

If the Control Panel called cPanel (see link to demo) is OK with Rupert, I suggest that IAPCT go with an account at SiteGround.

Sure. Do they offer MyBB as an application?

Rupert

[rupert]

[From Rupert Young (2017.09.02 12.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]

As I understand it, a host does not have to have a ready-made install package.

Just had a chat with SiteGround and they do have this for MyBB.

For the existing site, I will zip it all and send it to you so you get the template and cs.css file that goes with the current setup. Created in Dreamweaver, which you now have.

Is this something someone else could do as it is separate from the forum?

Here is one: GrowBig comes with one year free Wildcard SSL, a $30 value, they say. I don't think our system calls for that. Regular SSL suffices. We shall not set that up for autorenew, methinketh.

I agree (though don't know what Wildcard SSL is).

Bruce posted some info regarding PCT.net. Will Bruce make an offer?

How about PCTnet.org? Would bruce want to register a domain name for the Forum so it will have a separate domain?

What is this for? I'd understood the official name of the organisation was now IAPCT, so it would seem logical to have a corresponding domain name. My assumption was that an official website would be on www.iapct.org and the forum on forum.iapct.org (if iapct.org is the domain chosen).

Regards,
Rupert

[MartinT]

[Martin Taylor 2017.09.02.07.28]

[From Rupert Young (2017.09.02 12.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]
...

Bruce posted some info regarding PCT.net. Will Bruce make an offer?

How about PCTnet.org? Would bruce want to register a domain name for the Forum so it will have a separate domain?

What is this for? I'd understood the official name of the organisation was now IAPCT, so it would seem logical to have a corresponding domain name. My assumption was that an official website would be on www.iapct.org and the forum on forum.iapct.org (if iapct.org is the domain chosen).

I would, as a person who came across this by googling, assume that iapct.org would be primarily about IAPCT (the organization), whereas pct.net would be about PCT.

The trouble with the name PCT is that the Wikipedia disambiguation page for PCT has 22 entries. Maybe that isn't important, but maybe it is. Anyway, I would think that under the umbrella of PCT.net there would be a small section, a subdomain or a forum section, about the organization. The theory is big and complicated, with sections of the forum on such things as the mathematics of control, biological and mechanical implementation of control (robots), applications of control, sociology of control, etc. etc. IAPCT supports PCT development and propagation, not the other way round.

Names do matter.

Martin

[DagArchive]

[Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]

See notes below

[From Rupert Young (2017.09.02 12.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]

As I understand it, a host does not have to have a ready-made install package.

Just had a chat with SiteGround and they do have this for MyBB.

For the existing site, I will zip it all and send it to you so you get the template and cs.css file that goes with the current setup. Created in Dreamweaver, which you now have.

Is this something someone else could do as it is separate from the forum?

DF: You have volunteered to handle the forum, using MyBB software.
I can continue to serve as webmaster for the rest.
No need to send you files for Dreamweaver.

Here is one: GrowBig comes with one year free Wildcard SSL, a $30 value, they say. I don't think our system calls for that. Regular SSL suffices. We shall not set that up for autorenew, methinketh.

I agree (though don't know what Wildcard SSL is).

DF: I googled it and it seems to be a wrap-around SSL service. We do not need it.

Bruce posted some info regarding PCT.net. Will Bruce make an offer?

How about PCTnet.org? Would bruce want to register a domain name for the Forum so it will have a separate domain?

What is this for? I'd understood the official name of the organisation was now IAPCT, so it would seem logical to have a corresponding domain name. My assumption was that an official website would be on www.iapct.org and the forum on forum.iapct.org (if iapct.org is the domain chosen).

DF: While considering what level of service we would buy, single web site or multiple, I floated the idea that the forum could have its own domain with a shorter URL, such as PCTnet.org, which is available. This would then be a second site. Our account would have two: iapct.org and pctnet.org. They would point to each other, such as Martin suggests this morning [Martin Taylor 2017.09.02.07.28].

Based on my idea, Bruce [Bruce Nevin 2017.09.01.10:54 ET)] expressed a like for pct.net, so I tried to ask him just how serious he is about that.

Martin points out that there are 22 definitions for the acronym PCT. So I think calling our forum PCTnet makes more sense, having its own URL pctnet.org.

So my suggestion at the moment is that I set up our account with SiteGround for multiple websites, transfer the existing IAPCT.org and continue as webmaster for it.

I would register pctnet.org and set it up as a second site at SiteGround.
You are webmaster and set up MyBB there.

We both have access to the root of the account (the entire system), meaning databases and such for you, email accounts and forwarding for me. FTP access to the board's web pages for the board.

Going forward, other sites 100% dedicated to PCT, such as Adam Matic's PCT-Labs, currently hosted at my system, can be hosted under this umbrella too.

All of these musings are suggestions on my part.

Let me know what makes most sense from your point of view.

BTW, got your mail from Patreon. Nice going

Best, Dag