Surprise and PCT

[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1224.2150)]

I would welcome a PCT explanation of the experience of surprise.

The enemy of truth is not error. The enemy of truth is certainty.

[Martin Taylor 2004.12.24.22.10 Almost Xmas!]

[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1224.2150)]

I would welcome a PCT explanation of the experience of surprise.

I think you need to say what you mean a bit more precisely. As
stated, the answer is trivial. All disturbance is surprise, within
the time-scale set by the disturbance bandwidth.

I don't think that answer will satisfy you, though it answers the
question as stated. What else do you mean?

Martin

[From Bill Powers (2004.12.24.2140 MST)]

Bruce Gregory (2004.1224.2150) --

I would welcome a PCT explanation of the experience of surprise.

No, you wouldn't.

Bill P.

[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1225.0720)]

Bill Powers (2004.12.24.2140 MST)

Bruce Gregory (2004.1224.2150) --

I would welcome a PCT explanation of the experience of surprise.

No, you wouldn't.

Is that a prediction or an attempt to control?

The enemy of truth is not error. The enemy of truth is certainty.

[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1225.0735)]

Martin Taylor 2004.12.24.22.10 Almost Xmas!

[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1224.2150)]

I would welcome a PCT explanation of the experience of surprise.

I think you need to say what you mean a bit more precisely. As
stated, the answer is trivial. All disturbance is surprise, within
the time-scale set by the disturbance bandwidth.

I don't think that answer will satisfy you, though it answers the
question as stated. What else do you mean?

So surprise refers to a disturbance in a controlled variable. in other
words, the thermostat is surprised when the temperature changes, but I
am not surprised when the rising sun turns out to be bright green.

The enemy of truth is not error. The enemy of truth is certainty.

[Martin Taylor 2004.12.25.12.00 Happy Xmas noon]

[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1225.0735)]

Martin Taylor 2004.12.24.22.10 Almost Xmas!

[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1224.2150)]

I would welcome a PCT explanation of the experience of surprise.

I think you need to say what you mean a bit more precisely. As
stated, the answer is trivial. All disturbance is surprise, within
the time-scale set by the disturbance bandwidth.

I don't think that answer will satisfy you, though it answers the
question as stated. What else do you mean?

So surprise refers to a disturbance in a controlled variable. in other
words, the thermostat is surprised when the temperature changes, but I
am not surprised when the rising sun turns out to be bright green.

You can clarify your question by producing examples, as you have just
done, but it's a slow way. You need dozens of examples if your
readers are to know what you really are getting at, so if I seem a
bit slow in getting the point, please bear with me.

I'll try to say how I understand what you are asking, so far.

It's a question of _conscious_ perception, isn't it? That's why you
used the wording "experience of surprise" rather than just "surprise".

You implicitly deny that the thermostat is surprised, on the grounds
that you don't believe it is conscious of the surprise. In the case
of the green sun (which some quite sober people have actually seen
along with other colours, though near sunset, not sunrise -- Northern
Europe, Sept 27, 1950), an automated control system consisting of a
spectrophotometer that adjusted some filters to produce a flat
visible spectrum would not be surprised, but a person whose job is to
adjust those same filters would be surprised.

Do I understand you so far?

If I do, one part of your question is about how conscious experience
is created -- or maybe it is about the conditions under which
conscious experience is created (a precursor question which might
some day be answerable; we've seen many suggestions on CSGnet over
the years).

A second part of your question is about the specific conscious
experience we label "surprise." And to go back to your original
wording "a PCT explanation of the experience of surprise", you
apparently take for granted that there is a PCT explanation of
conscious experience in general, and are asking for the specifics
that create the particular experience of "surprise".

Do I understand you so far?

If not, and I suspect I don't, perhaps more examples, or a more
verbose rewording of the original question might be helpful. I think
that the first clarification must be whether you are specifically
asking about the content of conscious experience. The way to address
the rest of the question hinges on that.

Martin

[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1225.1420)]

Martin Taylor 2004.12.25.12.00 Happy Xmas noon

From the fact that I am occasionally surprised, I infer that I have
expectations that are met most of the time, but not always. I was
inquiring whether the PCT model incorporates such expectations, since
it seems to me that it does not. Conscious or not, the thermostat, as
far as I can tell, anticipates nothing; it simply reacts to
disturbances. This lack of anticipation seems to characterize all PCT
systems. Am I correct in this regard?

The enemy of truth is not error. The enemy of truth is certainty.