Tactless in LA

[From Rick Marken (940411.1830)]

Greg Williams (940411)--

somebody should tell Rick that he is often tactless. Ed, you just
did. Bravo!

I agree. The only way people can know if they are being tactless is
to be told when they are. But I wonder if people can really do much
about it. After all, in order to be tactful, you have to be able to
say things that never offend -- ie that are not a disturbance to anything
that a person is controlling. But how do you do that? You might have
a pretty good idea what people are controlling -- but what happens
when you make a mistake? Being tactful implies an ability to ALWAYS
say what will not disturb the controlled variables of another.
So, when you ask that a person be tactful, you are asking them to
do something that Ed Ford says is impossible in Freedom From
Stress; you are asking another person to control your perceptions for
you. If Ed believed that it was important to be tactful, he would have
brought Bob's wife into therapy and told her to stop making Bob feel
bad -- she should be more tactful. But he didn't. Ed said via Bob, who was
being subjected to tactlessness on the part of his wife -- she was
disturing some of his variables -- "So what we do isn't caused by
what happens to us but,rather, by how we view things" (p. 4). I agree
with Ed in this analysis and recommend that YOU read Freedom From
Stress. If you do, I think you will realize that my "tactlessness" is
your problem, not mine.

By the way, which of my myriad pronouncements did you find tactless?
There are so many possibilities. Was it the light bulb joke or the
claim that there is no information in perception about the cause of
variations in the controlled variable? You never know what will
offend some people. Look what happened to poor Salman Rushdie. Guess
he should have been more tactful, eh?

As I have suggested to a few CSG members: maybe Kuhn got it wrong.
Maybe a scientific revolution takes off not because the "old guard" dies
off but because the new zealots do. Perhaps we have a long time to wait
before PCT becomes mainstream! How old are you, Rick? :wink:

Old enough to know when to get a haircut <<;-).

I must admit that it is an honor to be recognized as the main obstacle
to acceptance of PCT throughout the scientific community. It has not been
easy, let me tell you. The popularity of PCT threatened to skyrocket before
I joined the cult (as a ZIT -- Zealot In Training). Now a full-fledged
zealot (no more ZITs) I am able to stifle agreement in the wink of an eye.
It's really been a satisfying experience driving away the thirsty
masses of behavioral scientists coming to drink at the well of PCT
wisdom. I'll try to keep up the good work; I'm becoming a legend in
my own mind.

Probably Tactlessly


<[Bill Leach 940412.21:39 EST(EDT)]

[Rick Marken (940411.1830)]

Well I don't know about "tactlessly" thout probably. However, it is time
for me to say something publicly that I have said privately to several
people on the net:

Several times, Rick, more than anyone else here, hurt my feelings. Yes,
he did... my little ego really got ruffed up. It did not seem to matter
Officer Rick just how much "progress" I might have made. If he though
that something I said was wrong he would and did often express that
sentiment quite bluntly.

Maybe fortunately for me, or unfortunately for Rick... not sure which,
but it seemed that one of two things would happen; either after my poor
smoldering bruised pride simmered down a bit I would see where either I
expressed myself rather poorly or "horrors of horrors" I actually was
wrong! OR Bill would make another of those postings that so frequently
seem to have the ability to turn on a light bulb of understanding.

So maybe he does ruffle a few feathers now and then but I can honestly
say that I have not read anything that Rick has so far written that I
have seen that has not caused me to think. And for my part, I personally
have come to perceive that his "attacks" are ALWAYS "put up or shut"
sorts of things. That is justify with valid data or at least consistant
PCT theory that which you assert... if you want it to be considered "part
of PCT."

I still believe that Rick often missunderstands me and that the reason is
partially his fault and partially mine but I am convinced that it IS the
arguements that he and I have had that have and will further my own
knowledge and UNDERSTANDING of PCT. Thus, I have privately thanked
Officer Marken for citing and shooting at me when he felt it was

Yes, he is "tactless" but he is probably cute too <g>