Talkin' with the elders

[From Rick Marken (2008.10.07.1640)]

Dick Robertson (2008.10.04.0905CDT) --

Rick,

Have you sent this to Move On? I think you should. (You could cite some of the fact-sources
to which you're referring, too.)

I found this on TruthDig (Robert Sheer's blog):

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081006_republican_economic_theories_dont_add_up/

The guy makes the same points I do. So it's not like I'm the only one
who has seem data that shows rather clearly that "trickle down"
policies don't work. I think data is just not as important to people
as beliefs so this kind of thing has little impact. People seem to be
natural theoreticians; they are just lousy at evaluating data. That's
why I like PCT so well, by the way; it's not only a great theory but
it makes excellent use of data. Phenomena phirst, as I always say;-)

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[FRom Dick Robertson, 2008.10.10.0950CDT]

Rick,

Thanks for the reference. I clicked on the link, but traffic is apparently so heavy that it just hung up. I will try it again later. Meanwhile

The guy makes the same points I do. So it’s not like I’m the
only one who has seem data that shows rather clearly that “trickle down”
policies don’t work. I think data is just not as important to people
as beliefs so this kind of thing has little impact. People seem to be
natural theoreticians; they are just lousy at evaluating data. That’s
why I like PCT so well, by the way; it’s not only a great theory but
it makes excellent use of data. Phenomena phirst, as I always

Well, I agree that many regular Americans don’t seem to evaluate data well. But I think you could fine/slice a number of different groups out of that general category. How much time does a minimum wage person have to exam a set of data when they’re working two or three jobs while caring for kids, trying to keep the wolf from the door? And when did they learn how to analyze data in the first place?

There are some who make decisions so completely on traditions, symbols, emotions etc. but as in a recent display on CSGnet proved, someone who looked like such a person turned out to be quite capable of rational analysis.

Bill, in his recent plea that we try to find way to offer the fruits of PCT to a wider audience, suggested a general idea that I think could challenge us–guys like you especially–to break down the analytic process using the idea of controlling one’s perceptions, in small steps that might interest some 6-pack joes.

I think you could do it. You’re already working on it with college students. That is a more receptive group already, of course. What if you asked those who are beginning to like PCT how they would do it?

Best

Dick R.

[From Fred Nickols (2008.10.08.0843 PDT)]

I don't know if it would appeal to joe six-pak or not but the PCT primer I put together a while back might be useful somewhere along the line. A copy is attached.

PCT101.pdf (456 KB)

···

--
Regards,

Fred Nickols
Managing Partner
Distance Consulting Company, LLC
nickols@att.net
www.nickols.us

"Assistance at A Distance"
  
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Robertson Richard <R-Robertson@NEIU.EDU>

[FRom Dick Robertson, 2008.10.10.0950CDT]

Rick,

Thanks for the reference. I clicked on the link, but traffic is apparently so

heavy that it just hung up. I will try it again later. Meanwhile

> The guy makes the same points I do. So it's not like I'm the
> only one who has seem data that shows rather clearly that "trickle down"
> policies don't work. I think data is just not as important to people
> as beliefs so this kind of thing has little impact. People seem to be
> natural theoreticians; they are just lousy at evaluating data. That's
> why I like PCT so well, by the way; it's not only a great theory but
> it makes excellent use of data. Phenomena phirst, as I always

Well, I agree that many regular Americans don't seem to evaluate data well. But
I think you could fine/slice a number of different groups out of that general
category. How much time does a minimum wage person have to exam a set of data
when they're working two or three jobs while caring for kids, trying to keep the

wolf from the door? And when did they learn how to analyze data in the first
place?

There are some who make decisions so completely on traditions, symbols, emotions
etc. but as in a recent display on CSGnet proved, someone who looked like such a
person turned out to be quite capable of rational analysis.

Bill, in his recent plea that we try to find way to offer the fruits of PCT to a
wider audience, suggested a general idea that I think could challenge us--guys
like you especially--to break down the analytic process using the idea of
controlling one's perceptions, in small steps that might interest some 6-pack
joes.

I think you could do it. You're already working on it with college students.
That is a more receptive group already, of course. What if you asked those who
are beginning to like PCT how they would do it?

> Best

Dick R.

[From Rick Marken (2008.10.09.1400)]

Dick Robertson (2008.10.10.0950CDT) --

Well, I agree that many regular Americans don't seem to evaluate data well.
But I think you could fine/slice a number of different groups out of that
general category. How much time does a minimum wage person have to exam a
set of data when they're working two or three jobs while caring for kids,
trying to keep the wolf from the door? And when did they learn how to
analyze data in the first place?

Yes, I'm referring to the leaders; the supposedly smart people. Guys
like Greenspan and Paulson and, yes, the President. These are the
people who get us into crap like we're in because they ignore even the
most obvious evidence (like that presented in the TruthDig article).

There are some who make decisions so completely on traditions, symbols,
emotions etc. but as in a recent display on CSGnet proved, someone who
looked like such a person turned out to be quite capable of rational
analysis.

I agree that Jim said some pretty reasonable things. But I won't be
impressed with the changes until he tells me that he now would not
consider voting Republican, that he condemns the Nazi rallies that now
pass as Republican political events, embraces the idea that paying
taxes is a patriotic investment in America and apologizes profusely
(particularly to my children) for the last 8 years;-)

Bill, in his recent plea that we try to find way to offer the fruits of PCT
to a wider audience, suggested a general idea that I think could challenge
us--guys like you especially--to break down the analytic process using the
idea of controlling one's perceptions, in small steps that might interest
some 6-pack joes.

Sorry, I don't have the time or the courage. In my experience these
guys are just plain dangerous.

I think you could do it. You're already working on it with college students.
That is a more receptive group already, of course. What if you asked those
who are beginning to like PCT how they would do it?

The kids are generally great. It does give me hope when I go into
these classrooms. The students don't know much about how the economic
system works but they are generally completely non-racist,
non-homophobic and look forward hopefully to a nice future (instead of
the apocalypse). I hope they get a chance; I am hopeful too.

Love

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com