From[Bill Williams 22 June 2004 9:00 PM CST]
[From Rick Marken (2004.06.22.1520)]
Michelle Ivers (2004.06.23 0700EST) --
Rick you missed the first life-line that Bill Powers threw to >> you, and the same with the second one.
I think it's you who has missed the civility line that I've
been trying to throw to you.
Now this is perhaps one of the most interesting perception I have ever encountered. First Rick calls the lady "an ignorant slut." Then Rick is disappointed because somehow or other Michelle is not persuaded that Rick understands the first thing about how to behave in a way that conforms to a PCT sophistology. Maybe what Rick should do to do is to expand upon this novel notion of PCT civility. Perhaps Rick could explain this totally unexpected conception that he has developed using his discussion with Kenny as an illustration of how PCT civility can improve human relations and advance the cause of science.
I never insulted you and you reacted as though I had.
It is my memory, my perception you understand, that Michelle has denied having perceived your typically caddish behaviour as an insult. What would, if my understanding of Michelle's world view is correct-- her perceptual system that is, would have been your fawning over her insights. This might have been more than her system would have been able to tolerate.
But, subjective assessments aside, I think that now, according to Michelle's self system you now have genuinely insulted Michelle.
The very idea that Rick Marken could insult Michelle is totally absurd. I would think that a garden snake would have a better chance of insulting Michelle than would Rick Marken.
Bill Williams persistently insulted Bill Powers and me
I thought the proper way to say this was, "I see you have chosen to be insulted." You have to employ a reference level-- the reference level to be insulted by what someone else says, to be insulted. How you perceive the situation is your choice just as how Michelle chooses to perceive you is her choice.
Rick goes on to say, that Michelle
defended him to the hilt.
That is Michelle stuck the sword into Bill Powers and Rick Marken right up to the hilt. Rick has ignored Michelle's explanation that she is not defending Bill Williams, but rather asking questions. Apparently asking questions is according to PCT sophistology analogous somehow to bloodiy slaughter.
Rick goes on to say that,
I don't know who the heck you are but based on your performance > on the net
Michelle made her mistake by asking non-PCT type questions. Michelle's questions apparently are not quite so bad as Kenny's non-belief in PCT economics, so Michelle hasn't as yet ben put on the spam blocker list. But, watch out. Michelle knows very well what to watch out for, like Ed Ford's closing the Respthink net after Michelle started asking questions.
I am not impressed by your values
After you called her "an ignorant slut" most of us knew this.
or your understanding of control theory.
To an impartial observer of your struggle to defend yourself from Michelle's questions, it looks to me that despite your being a moral relativist, that you might take a functionalist view of the situation. Bill Powers who has your long-run best interests at heart has been gently warning you that this is not an argument that you are likely to win. And, when even Bryan apparently thinks that you made a mistake by calling Michelle "an ignorant slut" then I would think that a prudent person would reflect upon where this argument that you insist upon is taking you. If you hadn't realized it, the argument is creating a record of how when it is applied this PCT sophistology and civlitity work out.
As you say,
But that's just my perception.
Have a nice day
You see, in attempting to counter-control the effect of Michelle's questions you have chosen to do so by asserting that the values she holds are deficient, and that she is ignorant of PCT principles. This time you forgot to wear the magical fig leaf-- the "if."
I wonder, in a peer reviewed journal could you demonstrate from Michelle's posts that her values are deficient?
Home: 310 474 0313
Cell: 310 729 1400