The role of the guide iin MOL Therapy

dmg · August 25, 2007, 2:03am

Message
[David Goldstein (2007.08.24.09:41 pmEDT)]

Dear listmates:

Bill and I were having a discussion today about the three levels involved in the resolution of an internal conflict

which he described in a previsou post and which Tim Carey has in his book on page 46.

I asked him some questions which led to some interesting thoughts and he suggested that I write them out

and put it on the CSGnet.

The ability of a person to control his/her awarenss to go up or down a level is part of the Reorganization System.

So, why doesn’t the person solve internal conflicts without therapy?

The therapist’s role in MOL Therapy is to hellp the explorer move awareness from the lowest level where the conflict is

expressed to the middle level and then to the top level of the three levels involved in conflicts. Awaress placed on

control systems gives a target for reorganization to work on.

This makes MOL Therapy to be a directive therapy, versus Client-Centered Therapy, and one which is directive in a very

speciific way.

Why doesn’t the explorer do this on his/her own? Awareness is drawn to the level where the error signals are largest.

Whille the explorer has the ability to direct awareness, he/she doesn’t know that ‘going up a level’ is the way to resolve the

conflcit. The MOL therapist has this role.

By the end of therapy, hopefully the explorer has learned the strategy of ‘going up a level’ and can apply it to future conflicts.

David

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rsmarken · August 25, 2007, 4:29pm

[From Rick Marken (2007.08.25.0930)]

David Goldstein (2007.08.24.09:41 pmEDT)--

I asked him some questions which led to some interesting thoughts and he
suggested that I write them out and put it on the CSGnet.

The ability of a person to control his/her awarenss to go up or down a level
is part of the Reorganization System.

So, why doesn't the person solve internal conflicts without therapy?

I gave an example of a situation (the "go to kitchen vs go to dining
room" conflict) where I did solve the conflict sans therapy. I think
we are solving "little" conflicts like that all the time without
therapy. I think therapy is needed for certain conflicts -- maybe
higher level ones or ones that don't always present because it is
possible to avoid one side of the conflict. But some conflicts to seem
harder to solve than others.

By the way, given the 3 level model of conflict, where the conflict
can only by solved (using MOL) by getting consciousness up to the
third (highest) level of the conflict, it seems like many conflicts
will be simply unsolvable by MOL. That is, if there are really only
about 11 levels of the control hierarchy and the highest level
references cannot be changed from a still higher level, then conflicts
that are expressed at levels 9 or above cannot be solved by MOL. Only
by random change in references above the conflict. Is that right?

Why doesn't the explorer do this on his/her own? Awareness is drawn to the
level where the error signals are largest.

I guess the errors are largest at the second level of the conflict;
change has to happen one level up from there.

By the end of therapy, hopefully the explorer has learned the strategy of
'going up a level' and can apply it to future conflicts.

I guess so. I know how to go up a level but I'm still pretty bad at
using it to solve my conflicts.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
Lecturer in Psychology
UCLA
rsmarken@gmail.com

dmg · August 25, 2007, 10:11pm

[David Goldstein (2007.08.25.09:41 pmEDT]
in response to:
[From Rick Marken (2007.08.25.0930)]

For the kind of conflict about which room to go into, the error signals
did not persist very
long. It is only that kind of problem which brings people into therapy.

The point about the the conflict resolution method of MOL Therapy being
limited by the three level
model is interesting.
I am not sure of the answer except to say that in MOL Therapy, it is
relative levels which are worked
with, not absolute levels.

It is hard to do MOL Therapy by email. Have you ever done it with a real
live guide, face-to-face, or at
least by telephone?

David

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Kenneth_Kitzke_Value · August 26, 2007, 3:43pm

[Kenny Kitzke (2007.08.26)]

I am getting confused by the melding of MOL with how/when/why the “Reorganization System” operates. Perhaps you or Bill or anyone could clarify a couple of observations and questions. I think Dick Robertson also asked some excellent clairifying questions.

First, my understanding is that the “Reorganization System” (RS) is not a “Hiearchal Peceptual Control System” (HPCS). The only time the RS even operates is when the HPCS cannot prevent long-experienced, large error, especially if this error is at the highest level of perception.

If so, it would seem that any movement of ones awareness to different levels of perception and error, whether done quite naturally by oneself, or facilitated by an MOL therapist, is a function of the HPCS and not the RS?

I also perceive some confusion between resolving internal conflict and reducing internal error and how the RS and/or the HPCS functions for each. I understand that error can be reduced by changing what is perceived (by action) or by changing the reference (by the upper level). So, I see MOL as a relevant method for reducing error.

However, I understood internal conflict as arising when two references cannot be simultaneously perceived no matter what action is taken within the HPCS. I would include MOL in this futile attempt. Hence, the RS must come into action to alter the HPCS itself.

I would appreciate any clarifications anyone could offer.

···

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