The straits of W.T.Magellan

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

In the early 1500's the "Spice Islands" (in the region around Indonesia and Malaysia) were a part of the world reached from Europe by a long and arduous passage past the Cape of Good Hope and India. Because their spices fetched huge sums of money in Europe, European maritime powers contested to colonize them and monopolize their particular products. Columbus had hoped to reach them by travelling west, but had been blocked by the Americas. Within fifteen years of Columbus's first voyage of discovery, Amerigo Vespucci had shown South America to be a large land mass blocking further westward travel, and Henry VIII of England had sent John Cabot to try to find a way west around North America.

In 1520, less than thirty years after Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan found a passage a long way south along the South American coast, and that passage opened onto a vast ocean, an ocean that was not unknown, but that until then could be reached from Europe only by the eastward route or overland across Mexico or Central America. In early 1521, Magellan reached the Phillipines having discovered a couple of Pacific islands on the way, but was killed there. Eventually a few of the original crew arrived home, having completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth.

What the small remaining crew brought home was the news that a way existed to get to the Spice Islands westward by sea. There would be a map of the narrow and difficult strait, and maps of a few islands new to European knowledge, including the Philippines. To European eyes, the Pacific world now contained more than the Spice Islands. The way was open to them and the rest of the broad Pacific from Europe by sea.

But was the way open? Even now, with modern technology and power, it is not easy to use the Strait of Magellan, especially against the prevailing Westerly winds. It took a long time to map the Pacific. Even 200 years after Magellan Baja California was an island, Australia was not known to be an island and it took another 50 years before a European saw its east coast. Magellan's maps would have been far from charting all the details even of the passage that is now named after him.

What has this to do with Powers? I think there are several analogies worth thinking about. Let's think about the Spice Islands, a rich region that grew spices that fetched huge sums of money back in Europe. It was a region much coveted and fought over by European colonial powers. I think of this and the rest of the riches of the Pacific as analogous to Psychology, much fought over by different schools that are all based on the same underlying concept, the "Eastward" or "unidirectional" concept, which we now oppose to the "Westward" or "negative feedback" concept.

Just as Magellan opened an entirely new way to approach those islands, Powers opened up a new way to approach Psychology. Just as Magellan mapped the Strait in gross detail, so Powers mapped his entry-way in gross detail. Just as Magellan's maps did not list every rock and shoal in his strait, so Powers acknowledged that there were many uncertainties yet to be explored within the gross structure of his control hierarchy. Just as Magellan found a few islands in the Pacific unknown to European commerce, so Powers found a few aspects of psychology not known to those who approached it from the other direction. And just as the maps Magellan made were guides for later explorers, so the guidance Powers offered to those who would follow his footsteps helped and continues to help later explorers.

There's another parallel, as well, which is that although Magellan's maps showed the way for ships to sail from the Atlantic into the Pacific, the route was never easy for wooden sailing ships; it is not so easy even for modern powered ships with GPS, radar, and other technologies. Likewise, Powers's map of the possibilities of control hierarchies is not easy for others to follow, few researchers having all the necessary skills and understanding. To follow Powers and extend our understanding of how his system actually works requires expertise in experimentation, simulation, mathematics and physiology. Possibly nobody has all those skills, so, just as with modern exploration, most real advances depend on the work of teams or taking advantage of what other disciplines can offer. Even Powers often said that he was often surprised by the way the hierarchy worked. And like Magellan's maps, Powers's maps always remain subject to revision as later explorers learn more about the terrain.

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish expeditions launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the Americas. Again we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback theories of psychology such as "ecological psychology", but as with the coastal explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an ad-hoc feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components, in contrast to the "all-by-sea" purity of the control hierarchy route pioneered by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging to a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas, in the way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands, each island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened will probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future explorers should acknowledge a debt to W. T. Powers.

Martin

[From Fred Nickols (2016.09.15.1009 ET)]

This is a really nice piece, Martin. With your permission I'd like to post
it to the control theory section of my web site.

Regards,

Fred Nickols, Consultant
My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC
"Assistance at a Distance"SM

From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:58 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: The straits of W.T.Magellan

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

In the early 1500's the "Spice Islands" (in the region around Indonesia

and

Malaysia) were a part of the world reached from Europe by a long and
arduous passage past the Cape of Good Hope and India. Because their spices
fetched huge sums of money in Europe, European maritime powers
contested to colonize them and monopolize their particular products.
Columbus had hoped to reach them by travelling west, but had been blocked
by the Americas. Within fifteen years of Columbus's first voyage of

discovery,

Amerigo Vespucci had shown South America to be a large land mass blocking
further westward travel, and Henry VIII of England had sent John Cabot to

try

to find a way west around North America.

In 1520, less than thirty years after Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan found a
passage a long way south along the South American coast, and that passage
opened onto a vast ocean, an ocean that was not unknown, but that until
then could be reached from Europe only by the eastward route or overland
across Mexico or Central America. In early 1521, Magellan reached the
Phillipines having discovered a couple of Pacific islands on the way, but

was

killed there. Eventually a few of the original crew arrived home, having
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth.

What the small remaining crew brought home was the news that a way
existed to get to the Spice Islands westward by sea. There would be a map

of

the narrow and difficult strait, and maps of a few islands new to European
knowledge, including the Philippines. To European eyes, the Pacific world
now contained more than the Spice Islands. The way was open to them and
the rest of the broad Pacific from Europe by sea.

But was the way open? Even now, with modern technology and power, it is
not easy to use the Strait of Magellan, especially against the prevailing
Westerly winds. It took a long time to map the Pacific. Even
200 years after Magellan Baja California was an island, Australia was not
known to be an island and it took another 50 years before a European saw

its

east coast. Magellan's maps would have been far from charting all the

details

even of the passage that is now named after him.

What has this to do with Powers? I think there are several analogies worth
thinking about. Let's think about the Spice Islands, a rich region that

grew

spices that fetched huge sums of money back in Europe. It was a region
much coveted and fought over by European colonial powers. I think of this
and the rest of the riches of the Pacific as analogous to Psychology, much
fought over by different schools that are all based on the same underlying
concept, the "Eastward" or "unidirectional" concept, which we now oppose
to the "Westward" or "negative feedback" concept.

Just as Magellan opened an entirely new way to approach those islands,
Powers opened up a new way to approach Psychology. Just as Magellan
mapped the Strait in gross detail, so Powers mapped his entry-way in gross
detail. Just as Magellan's maps did not list every rock and shoal in his

strait, so

Powers acknowledged that there were many uncertainties yet to be
explored within the gross structure of his control hierarchy.
Just as Magellan found a few islands in the Pacific unknown to European
commerce, so Powers found a few aspects of psychology not known to
those who approached it from the other direction. And just as the maps
Magellan made were guides for later explorers, so the guidance Powers
offered to those who would follow his footsteps helped and continues to
help later explorers.

There's another parallel, as well, which is that although Magellan's maps
showed the way for ships to sail from the Atlantic into the Pacific, the

route

was never easy for wooden sailing ships; it is not so easy even for modern
powered ships with GPS, radar, and other technologies. Likewise, Powers's
map of the possibilities of control hierarchies is not easy for others to

follow,

few researchers having all the necessary skills and understanding. To

follow

Powers and extend our understanding of how his system actually works
requires expertise in experimentation, simulation, mathematics and
physiology. Possibly nobody has all those skills, so, just as with modern
exploration, most real advances depend on the work of teams or taking
advantage of what other disciplines can offer. Even Powers often said that
he was often surprised by the way the hierarchy worked. And like

Magellan's

maps, Powers's maps always remain subject to revision as later explorers
learn more about the terrain.

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of
America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish

expeditions

launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the Americas. Again
we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback theories of
psychology such as "ecological psychology", but as with the coastal
explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an

ad-hoc

feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components, in
contrast to the "all-by-sea" purity of the control hierarchy route

pioneered

by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who
explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control
hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new
direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging
to a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas,

in the

way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands,

each

island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened will
probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future

explorers

···

-----Original Message-----
should acknowledge a debt to W.
T. Powers.

Martin

Thank you, Martin, for paying homage to Dad with such eloquence.
*barb

···

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2016.09.15.1009 ET)]

This is a really nice piece, Martin. With your permission I’d like to post

it to the control theory section of my web site.

Regards,

Fred Nickols, Consultant

My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours

DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC

"Assistance at a Distance"SM

-----Original Message-----

From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net]

Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:58 AM

To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu

Subject: The straits of W.T.Magellan

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

In the early 1500’s the “Spice Islands” (in the region around Indonesia

and

Malaysia) were a part of the world reached from Europe by a long and

arduous passage past the Cape of Good Hope and India. Because their spices

fetched huge sums of money in Europe, European maritime powers

contested to colonize them and monopolize their particular products.

Columbus had hoped to reach them by travelling west, but had been blocked

by the Americas. Within fifteen years of Columbus’s first voyage of

discovery,

Amerigo Vespucci had shown South America to be a large land mass blocking

further westward travel, and Henry VIII of England had sent John Cabot to

try

to find a way west around North America.

In 1520, less than thirty years after Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan found a

passage a long way south along the South American coast, and that passage

opened onto a vast ocean, an ocean that was not unknown, but that until

then could be reached from Europe only by the eastward route or overland

across Mexico or Central America. In early 1521, Magellan reached the

Phillipines having discovered a couple of Pacific islands on the way, but

was

killed there. Eventually a few of the original crew arrived home, having

completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth.

What the small remaining crew brought home was the news that a way

existed to get to the Spice Islands westward by sea. There would be a map

of

the narrow and difficult strait, and maps of a few islands new to European

knowledge, including the Philippines. To European eyes, the Pacific world

now contained more than the Spice Islands. The way was open to them and

the rest of the broad Pacific from Europe by sea.

But was the way open? Even now, with modern technology and power, it is

not easy to use the Strait of Magellan, especially against the prevailing

Westerly winds. It took a long time to map the Pacific. Even

200 years after Magellan Baja California was an island, Australia was not

known to be an island and it took another 50 years before a European saw

its

east coast. Magellan’s maps would have been far from charting all the

details

even of the passage that is now named after him.

What has this to do with Powers? I think there are several analogies worth

thinking about. Let’s think about the Spice Islands, a rich region that

grew

spices that fetched huge sums of money back in Europe. It was a region

much coveted and fought over by European colonial powers. I think of this

and the rest of the riches of the Pacific as analogous to Psychology, much

fought over by different schools that are all based on the same underlying

concept, the “Eastward” or “unidirectional” concept, which we now oppose

to the “Westward” or “negative feedback” concept.

Just as Magellan opened an entirely new way to approach those islands,

Powers opened up a new way to approach Psychology. Just as Magellan

mapped the Strait in gross detail, so Powers mapped his entry-way in gross

detail. Just as Magellan’s maps did not list every rock and shoal in his

strait, so

Powers acknowledged that there were many uncertainties yet to be

explored within the gross structure of his control hierarchy.

Just as Magellan found a few islands in the Pacific unknown to European

commerce, so Powers found a few aspects of psychology not known to

those who approached it from the other direction. And just as the maps

Magellan made were guides for later explorers, so the guidance Powers

offered to those who would follow his footsteps helped and continues to

help later explorers.

There’s another parallel, as well, which is that although Magellan’s maps

showed the way for ships to sail from the Atlantic into the Pacific, the

route

was never easy for wooden sailing ships; it is not so easy even for modern

powered ships with GPS, radar, and other technologies. Likewise, Powers’s

map of the possibilities of control hierarchies is not easy for others to

follow,

few researchers having all the necessary skills and understanding. To

follow

Powers and extend our understanding of how his system actually works

requires expertise in experimentation, simulation, mathematics and

physiology. Possibly nobody has all those skills, so, just as with modern

exploration, most real advances depend on the work of teams or taking

advantage of what other disciplines can offer. Even Powers often said that

he was often surprised by the way the hierarchy worked. And like

Magellan’s

maps, Powers’s maps always remain subject to revision as later explorers

learn more about the terrain.

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of

America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish

expeditions

launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the Americas. Again

we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback theories of

psychology such as “ecological psychology”, but as with the coastal

explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an

ad-hoc

feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components, in

contrast to the “all-by-sea” purity of the control hierarchy route

pioneered

by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who

explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control

hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new

direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging

to a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas,

in the

way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands,

each

island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened will

probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future

explorers

should acknowledge a debt to W.

T. Powers.

Martin

And can I then link to it? Fantastically helpful analogy…

···

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2016.09.15.1009 ET)]

This is a really nice piece, Martin. With your permission I’d like to post

it to the control theory section of my web site.

Regards,

Fred Nickols, Consultant

My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours

DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC

"Assistance at a Distance"SM

-----Original Message-----

From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net]

Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:58 AM

To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu

Subject: The straits of W.T.Magellan

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

In the early 1500’s the “Spice Islands” (in the region around Indonesia

and

Malaysia) were a part of the world reached from Europe by a long and

arduous passage past the Cape of Good Hope and India. Because their spices

fetched huge sums of money in Europe, European maritime powers

contested to colonize them and monopolize their particular products.

Columbus had hoped to reach them by travelling west, but had been blocked

by the Americas. Within fifteen years of Columbus’s first voyage of

discovery,

Amerigo Vespucci had shown South America to be a large land mass blocking

further westward travel, and Henry VIII of England had sent John Cabot to

try

to find a way west around North America.

In 1520, less than thirty years after Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan found a

passage a long way south along the South American coast, and that passage

opened onto a vast ocean, an ocean that was not unknown, but that until

then could be reached from Europe only by the eastward route or overland

across Mexico or Central America. In early 1521, Magellan reached the

Phillipines having discovered a couple of Pacific islands on the way, but

was

killed there. Eventually a few of the original crew arrived home, having

completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth.

What the small remaining crew brought home was the news that a way

existed to get to the Spice Islands westward by sea. There would be a map

of

the narrow and difficult strait, and maps of a few islands new to European

knowledge, including the Philippines. To European eyes, the Pacific world

now contained more than the Spice Islands. The way was open to them and

the rest of the broad Pacific from Europe by sea.

But was the way open? Even now, with modern technology and power, it is

not easy to use the Strait of Magellan, especially against the prevailing

Westerly winds. It took a long time to map the Pacific. Even

200 years after Magellan Baja California was an island, Australia was not

known to be an island and it took another 50 years before a European saw

its

east coast. Magellan’s maps would have been far from charting all the

details

even of the passage that is now named after him.

What has this to do with Powers? I think there are several analogies worth

thinking about. Let’s think about the Spice Islands, a rich region that

grew

spices that fetched huge sums of money back in Europe. It was a region

much coveted and fought over by European colonial powers. I think of this

and the rest of the riches of the Pacific as analogous to Psychology, much

fought over by different schools that are all based on the same underlying

concept, the “Eastward” or “unidirectional” concept, which we now oppose

to the “Westward” or “negative feedback” concept.

Just as Magellan opened an entirely new way to approach those islands,

Powers opened up a new way to approach Psychology. Just as Magellan

mapped the Strait in gross detail, so Powers mapped his entry-way in gross

detail. Just as Magellan’s maps did not list every rock and shoal in his

strait, so

Powers acknowledged that there were many uncertainties yet to be

explored within the gross structure of his control hierarchy.

Just as Magellan found a few islands in the Pacific unknown to European

commerce, so Powers found a few aspects of psychology not known to

those who approached it from the other direction. And just as the maps

Magellan made were guides for later explorers, so the guidance Powers

offered to those who would follow his footsteps helped and continues to

help later explorers.

There’s another parallel, as well, which is that although Magellan’s maps

showed the way for ships to sail from the Atlantic into the Pacific, the

route

was never easy for wooden sailing ships; it is not so easy even for modern

powered ships with GPS, radar, and other technologies. Likewise, Powers’s

map of the possibilities of control hierarchies is not easy for others to

follow,

few researchers having all the necessary skills and understanding. To

follow

Powers and extend our understanding of how his system actually works

requires expertise in experimentation, simulation, mathematics and

physiology. Possibly nobody has all those skills, so, just as with modern

exploration, most real advances depend on the work of teams or taking

advantage of what other disciplines can offer. Even Powers often said that

he was often surprised by the way the hierarchy worked. And like

Magellan’s

maps, Powers’s maps always remain subject to revision as later explorers

learn more about the terrain.

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of

America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish

expeditions

launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the Americas. Again

we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback theories of

psychology such as “ecological psychology”, but as with the coastal

explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an

ad-hoc

feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components, in

contrast to the “all-by-sea” purity of the control hierarchy route

pioneered

by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who

explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control

hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new

direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging

to a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas,

in the

way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands,

each

island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened will

probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future

explorers

should acknowledge a debt to W.

T. Powers.

Martin

Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Clinical Psychology

School of Health Sciences
2nd Floor Zochonis Building
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach

Available Now

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

[From Fred Nickols (2016.09.15.1107 ET)]

Sure, Warren. Once Martin gives me permission I’ll put it up and post a link to the list.

Regards,

Fred Nickols, Consultant

My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours

DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC

“Assistance at a Distanceâ€?SM

···

From: Warren Mansell [mailto:wmansell@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:58 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: The straits of W.T.Magellan

And can I then link to it? Fantastically helpful analogy…

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2016.09.15.1009 ET)]

This is a really nice piece, Martin. With your permission I’d like to post
it to the control theory section of my web site.

Regards,

Fred Nickols, Consultant
My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC
"Assistance at a Distance"SM

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:58 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: The straits of W.T.Magellan

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

In the early 1500’s the “Spice Islands” (in the region around Indonesia
and
Malaysia) were a part of the world reached from Europe by a long and
arduous passage past the Cape of Good Hope and India. Because their spices
fetched huge sums of money in Europe, European maritime powers
contested to colonize them and monopolize their particular products.
Columbus had hoped to reach them by travelling west, but had been blocked
by the Americas. Within fifteen years of Columbus’s first voyage of
discovery,
Amerigo Vespucci had shown South America to be a large land mass blocking
further westward travel, and Henry VIII of England had sent John Cabot to
try
to find a way west around North America.

In 1520, less than thirty years after Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan found a
passage a long way south along the South American coast, and that passage
opened onto a vast ocean, an ocean that was not unknown, but that until
then could be reached from Europe only by the eastward route or overland
across Mexico or Central America. In early 1521, Magellan reached the
Phillipines having discovered a couple of Pacific islands on the way, but
was
killed there. Eventually a few of the original crew arrived home, having
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth.

What the small remaining crew brought home was the news that a way
existed to get to the Spice Islands westward by sea. There would be a map
of
the narrow and difficult strait, and maps of a few islands new to European
knowledge, including the Philippines. To European eyes, the Pacific world
now contained more than the Spice Islands. The way was open to them and
the rest of the broad Pacific from Europe by sea.

But was the way open? Even now, with modern technology and power, it is
not easy to use the Strait of Magellan, especially against the prevailing
Westerly winds. It took a long time to map the Pacific. Even
200 years after Magellan Baja California was an island, Australia was not
known to be an island and it took another 50 years before a European saw
its
east coast. Magellan’s maps would have been far from charting all the
details
even of the passage that is now named after him.

What has this to do with Powers? I think there are several analogies worth
thinking about. Let’s think about the Spice Islands, a rich region that
grew
spices that fetched huge sums of money back in Europe. It was a region
much coveted and fought over by European colonial powers. I think of this
and the rest of the riches of the Pacific as analogous to Psychology, much
fought over by different schools that are all based on the same underlying
concept, the “Eastward” or “unidirectional” concept, which we now oppose
to the “Westward” or “negative feedback” concept.

Just as Magellan opened an entirely new way to approach those islands,
Powers opened up a new way to approach Psychology. Just as Magellan
mapped the Strait in gross detail, so Powers mapped his entry-way in gross
detail. Just as Magellan’s maps did not list every rock and shoal in his
strait, so
Powers acknowledged that there were many uncertainties yet to be
explored within the gross structure of his control hierarchy.
Just as Magellan found a few islands in the Pacific unknown to European
commerce, so Powers found a few aspects of psychology not known to
those who approached it from the other direction. And just as the maps
Magellan made were guides for later explorers, so the guidance Powers
offered to those who would follow his footsteps helped and continues to
help later explorers.

There’s another parallel, as well, which is that although Magellan’s maps
showed the way for ships to sail from the Atlantic into the Pacific, the
route
was never easy for wooden sailing ships; it is not so easy even for modern
powered ships with GPS, radar, and other technologies. Likewise, Powers’s
map of the possibilities of control hierarchies is not easy for others to
follow,
few researchers having all the necessary skills and understanding. To
follow
Powers and extend our understanding of how his system actually works
requires expertise in experimentation, simulation, mathematics and
physiology. Possibly nobody has all those skills, so, just as with modern
exploration, most real advances depend on the work of teams or taking
advantage of what other disciplines can offer. Even Powers often said that
he was often surprised by the way the hierarchy worked. And like
Magellan’s
maps, Powers’s maps always remain subject to revision as later explorers
learn more about the terrain.

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of
America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish
expeditions
launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the Americas. Again
we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback theories of
psychology such as “ecological psychology”, but as with the coastal
explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an
ad-hoc
feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components, in
contrast to the “all-by-sea” purity of the control hierarchy route
pioneered
by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who
explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control
hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new
direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging
to a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas,
in the
way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands,
each
island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened will
probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future
explorers
should acknowledge a debt to W.
T. Powers.

Martin

Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Clinical Psychology

School of Health Sciences
2nd Floor Zochonis Building
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach

Available Now

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

[Dag Forssell 2016.09.15.10.15 PST]

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

Martin,

Simply beautiful. I have taken the liberty of posting it here:
http://www.iapct.org/files/TaylorTribute.pdf

Ran spell check and formatted as best I know how.

I trust that is OK with you :slight_smile: If not, holler.

While at the site, I added Barbara's info about the 2017 conference.

Best, Dag

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.15.13.21]

[Dag Forssell 2016.09.15.10.15 PST]

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

Martin,

Simply beautiful. I have taken the liberty of posting it here:
http://www.iapct.org/files/TaylorTribute.pdf

Ran spell check and formatted as best I know how.

Since two people have now asked permission to disseminate my Magellan analogy to Powers, I'll give anyone a blanket permission to reproduce it, so long as it is unedited other than typos, spelling corrections and the like. In other words, don't post isolated bits of it, though you may, of course, quote sections in an appropriate context, with attribution and a pointer to the whole thing.

Martin

[From Fred Nickols (2016.09.15.1417 ET)]

Warren et al:

The link is http://www.nickols.us/SalutetoPowers.pdf

Regards,

Fred Nickols, Consultant

My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours

DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC

“Assistance at a Distanceâ€?SM

···

From: Warren Mansell [mailto:wmansell@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:58 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: The straits of W.T.Magellan

And can I then link to it? Fantastically helpful analogy…

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2016.09.15.1009 ET)]

This is a really nice piece, Martin. With your permission I’d like to post
it to the control theory section of my web site.

Regards,

Fred Nickols, Consultant
My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC
"Assistance at a Distance"SM

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:58 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: The straits of W.T.Magellan

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

In the early 1500’s the “Spice Islands” (in the region around Indonesia
and
Malaysia) were a part of the world reached from Europe by a long and
arduous passage past the Cape of Good Hope and India. Because their spices
fetched huge sums of money in Europe, European maritime powers
contested to colonize them and monopolize their particular products.
Columbus had hoped to reach them by travelling west, but had been blocked
by the Americas. Within fifteen years of Columbus’s first voyage of
discovery,
Amerigo Vespucci had shown South America to be a large land mass blocking
further westward travel, and Henry VIII of England had sent John Cabot to
try
to find a way west around North America.

In 1520, less than thirty years after Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan found a
passage a long way south along the South American coast, and that passage
opened onto a vast ocean, an ocean that was not unknown, but that until
then could be reached from Europe only by the eastward route or overland
across Mexico or Central America. In early 1521, Magellan reached the
Phillipines having discovered a couple of Pacific islands on the way, but
was
killed there. Eventually a few of the original crew arrived home, having
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth.

What the small remaining crew brought home was the news that a way
existed to get to the Spice Islands westward by sea. There would be a map
of
the narrow and difficult strait, and maps of a few islands new to European
knowledge, including the Philippines. To European eyes, the Pacific world
now contained more than the Spice Islands. The way was open to them and
the rest of the broad Pacific from Europe by sea.

But was the way open? Even now, with modern technology and power, it is
not easy to use the Strait of Magellan, especially against the prevailing
Westerly winds. It took a long time to map the Pacific. Even
200 years after Magellan Baja California was an island, Australia was not
known to be an island and it took another 50 years before a European saw
its
east coast. Magellan’s maps would have been far from charting all the
details
even of the passage that is now named after him.

What has this to do with Powers? I think there are several analogies worth
thinking about. Let’s think about the Spice Islands, a rich region that
grew
spices that fetched huge sums of money back in Europe. It was a region
much coveted and fought over by European colonial powers. I think of this
and the rest of the riches of the Pacific as analogous to Psychology, much
fought over by different schools that are all based on the same underlying
concept, the “Eastward” or “unidirectional” concept, which we now oppose
to the “Westward” or “negative feedback” concept.

Just as Magellan opened an entirely new way to approach those islands,
Powers opened up a new way to approach Psychology. Just as Magellan
mapped the Strait in gross detail, so Powers mapped his entry-way in gross
detail. Just as Magellan’s maps did not list every rock and shoal in his
strait, so
Powers acknowledged that there were many uncertainties yet to be
explored within the gross structure of his control hierarchy.
Just as Magellan found a few islands in the Pacific unknown to European
commerce, so Powers found a few aspects of psychology not known to
those who approached it from the other direction. And just as the maps
Magellan made were guides for later explorers, so the guidance Powers
offered to those who would follow his footsteps helped and continues to
help later explorers.

There’s another parallel, as well, which is that although Magellan’s maps
showed the way for ships to sail from the Atlantic into the Pacific, the
route
was never easy for wooden sailing ships; it is not so easy even for modern
powered ships with GPS, radar, and other technologies. Likewise, Powers’s
map of the possibilities of control hierarchies is not easy for others to
follow,
few researchers having all the necessary skills and understanding. To
follow
Powers and extend our understanding of how his system actually works
requires expertise in experimentation, simulation, mathematics and
physiology. Possibly nobody has all those skills, so, just as with modern
exploration, most real advances depend on the work of teams or taking
advantage of what other disciplines can offer. Even Powers often said that
he was often surprised by the way the hierarchy worked. And like
Magellan’s
maps, Powers’s maps always remain subject to revision as later explorers
learn more about the terrain.

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of
America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish
expeditions
launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the Americas. Again
we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback theories of
psychology such as “ecological psychology”, but as with the coastal
explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an
ad-hoc
feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components, in
contrast to the “all-by-sea” purity of the control hierarchy route
pioneered
by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who
explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control
hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new
direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging
to a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas,
in the
way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands,
each
island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened will
probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future
explorers
should acknowledge a debt to W.
T. Powers.

Martin

Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Clinical Psychology

School of Health Sciences
2nd Floor Zochonis Building
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach

Available Now

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

[From Bruce Abbott (2016.09.15.1420 EDT)]

Beautifully written, Martin! Thanks for this; Bill would have been so
pleased to read it.

Bruce

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:58 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: The straits of W.T.Magellan

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.14.15.10]

In the early 1500's the "Spice Islands" (in the region around Indonesia and
Malaysia) were a part of the world reached from Europe by a long and arduous
passage past the Cape of Good Hope and India. Because their spices fetched
huge sums of money in Europe, European maritime powers contested to colonize
them and monopolize their particular products.
Columbus had hoped to reach them by travelling west, but had been blocked by
the Americas. Within fifteen years of Columbus's first voyage of discovery,
Amerigo Vespucci had shown South America to be a large land mass blocking
further westward travel, and Henry VIII of England had sent John Cabot to
try to find a way west around North America.

In 1520, less than thirty years after Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan found a
passage a long way south along the South American coast, and that passage
opened onto a vast ocean, an ocean that was not unknown, but that until then
could be reached from Europe only by the eastward route or overland across
Mexico or Central America. In early 1521, Magellan reached the Phillipines
having discovered a couple of Pacific islands on the way, but was killed
there. Eventually a few of the original crew arrived home, having completed
the first circumnavigation of the Earth.

What the small remaining crew brought home was the news that a way existed
to get to the Spice Islands westward by sea. There would be a map of the
narrow and difficult strait, and maps of a few islands new to European
knowledge, including the Philippines. To European eyes, the Pacific world
now contained more than the Spice Islands. The way was open to them and the
rest of the broad Pacific from Europe by sea.

But was the way open? Even now, with modern technology and power, it is not
easy to use the Strait of Magellan, especially against the prevailing
Westerly winds. It took a long time to map the Pacific. Even
200 years after Magellan Baja California was an island, Australia was not
known to be an island and it took another 50 years before a European saw its
east coast. Magellan's maps would have been far from charting all the
details even of the passage that is now named after him.

What has this to do with Powers? I think there are several analogies worth
thinking about. Let's think about the Spice Islands, a rich region that grew
spices that fetched huge sums of money back in Europe. It was a region much
coveted and fought over by European colonial powers. I think of this and the
rest of the riches of the Pacific as analogous to Psychology, much fought
over by different schools that are all based on the same underlying concept,
the "Eastward" or "unidirectional" concept, which we now oppose to the
"Westward" or "negative feedback" concept.

Just as Magellan opened an entirely new way to approach those islands,
Powers opened up a new way to approach Psychology. Just as Magellan mapped
the Strait in gross detail, so Powers mapped his entry-way in gross detail.
Just as Magellan's maps did not list every rock and shoal in his strait, so
Powers acknowledged that there were many uncertainties yet to be explored
within the gross structure of his control hierarchy.
Just as Magellan found a few islands in the Pacific unknown to European
commerce, so Powers found a few aspects of psychology not known to those who
approached it from the other direction. And just as the maps Magellan made
were guides for later explorers, so the guidance Powers offered to those who
would follow his footsteps helped and continues to help later explorers.

There's another parallel, as well, which is that although Magellan's maps
showed the way for ships to sail from the Atlantic into the Pacific, the
route was never easy for wooden sailing ships; it is not so easy even for
modern powered ships with GPS, radar, and other technologies. Likewise,
Powers's map of the possibilities of control hierarchies is not easy for
others to follow, few researchers having all the necessary skills and
understanding. To follow Powers and extend our understanding of how his
system actually works requires expertise in experimentation, simulation,
mathematics and physiology. Possibly nobody has all those skills, so, just
as with modern exploration, most real advances depend on the work of teams
or taking advantage of what other disciplines can offer. Even Powers often
said that he was often surprised by the way the hierarchy worked. And like
Magellan's maps, Powers's maps always remain subject to revision as later
explorers learn more about the terrain.

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of
America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish
expeditions launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the
Americas. Again we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback
theories of psychology such as "ecological psychology", but as with the
coastal explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an
ad-hoc feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components,
in contrast to the "all-by-sea" purity of the control hierarchy route
pioneered by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who
explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control
hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new
direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging to
a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas, in
the way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands,
each island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened
will probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future
explorers should acknowledge a debt to W.
T. Powers.

Martin

[From Rick Marken (2016.09.15. 1300)]

···

Martin Taylor (2016.09.14.15.10) –

RM: I think it was a great idea to describe Powers’ discoveries as analogous to those of Magellan. I just wish that you had selected as examples of Powers’ discoveries those that were truly Magellanic.

RM: The first discovery you mention is the " ‘negative feedback’ concept". This was certainly an important component of Bill’s theory but the concept of negative feedback had been introduced to psychology well before Powers came along. What was Magellanic about Powers’ use of the negative feedback concept was his discovery that organisms in a negative feedback relationship with their environment are controlling their own inputs, not their outputs. Before Powers, psychologists thought that the negative feedback concept, as in the TOTE unit, was consistent with the idea that input causes output.

RM: The next of Powers’ discoveries that you mention is his “map of the possibilities of control hierarchies”. Again, hierarchical control models of behavior existed well before Powers came along but these were control of output models. Powers discovery was that a control hierarchy must be organized around control of input, not output.

RM: I think Powers’ truly Magellanic discoveries were of the fact that behavior is a control process and that this process is organized around the control of perceptual input variables. Like Magellan’s discovery of the new, Westward route to the Spice Islands, these discoveries provided a completely new route to understanding the behavior of living systems – a route that is directed toward the discovery of the variables that organisms control rather than the variables that control organisms.

Best regards

Rick

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish expeditions launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the Americas. Again we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback theories of psychology such as “ecological psychology”, but as with the coastal explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an ad-hoc feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components, in contrast to the “all-by-sea” purity of the control hierarchy route pioneered by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging to a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas, in the way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands, each island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened will probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future explorers should acknowledge a debt to W. T. Powers.

Martin


Richard S. Marken

“The childhood of the human race is far from over. We
have a long way to go before most people will understand that what they do for
others is just as important to their well-being as what they do for
themselves.” – William T. Powers

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.15.16.10]

These are all fair comments. I intended the land-based maritime

explorations of the Pacific from Mexico and Central America to
represent those earlier forays into negative feedback and control
hierarchy (was there actually a proposal for hierarchic control
before Powers?). But I guess that analogy didn’t get across. I would
analogise the discovery of the control of input to Magellan’s
discovery of the “input” to his strait, which he followed because he
was sharp enough to note that the water did not change its salinity
as he penetrated into this narrow inlet. He knew then that it had to
come out on the other side. Very like Powers realizing the
possibilities of input control in hierarchic form before he knew how
it would actually come out.
(I’m sensitive to this because I had all the opportunities that
Powers had, and didn’t see it. I had played with analogue control
systems as an undergraduate in the mid 50’s. I had published a
three-level control system as a theory for the difference between
passive and haptic touch in 1972. I had Layered Protocol Theory in
1984. I was nosing around the entrance to the “Strait” for decades,
but didn’t go in as Powers did. So I perhaps have a better
appreciation of his genius than most people do.)
Martin

···

On 2016/09/15 4:02 PM, Richard Marken
wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2016.09.15. 1300)]

          Martin

Taylor (2016.09.14.15.10) –

          RM: I think it was a great idea to describe Powers'

discoveries as analogous to those of Magellan. I just wish
that you had selected as examples of Powers’ discoveries
those that were truly Magellanic.

          RM: The first discovery you mention is the " 'negative

feedback’ concept". This was certainly an important
component of Bill’s theory but the concept of negative
feedback had been introduced to psychology well before
Powers came along. What was Magellanic about Powers’ use
of the negative feedback concept was his discovery that
organisms in a negative feedback relationship with their
environment are controlling their own inputs, not their
outputs. Before Powers, psychologists thought that the
negative feedback concept, as in the TOTE unit, was
consistent with the idea that input causes output.

          RM: The next of Powers' discoveries that you mention is

his “map of the possibilities of control hierarchies”.
Again, hierarchical control models of behavior existed
well before Powers came along but these were control of
output models. Powers discovery was that a control
hierarchy must be organized around control of input, not
output.

          RM: I think Powers' truly Magellanic discoveries were

of the fact that behavior is a control process and that
this process is organized around the control of perceptual
input variables. Like Magellan’s discovery of the new,
Westward route to the Spice Islands, these discoveries
provided a completely new route to understanding the
behavior of living systems – a route that is directed
toward the discovery of the variables that organisms
control rather than the variables that control organisms.

We can now start another bad-ass thread of argument about the appropriateness of the analogies made in Martin’s captivating story… Yet, let me suggest, as a more fruitful creative exercise, to self-reflect on whether Powers’ “progeny of explorers” may commit the sin of ceasing to follow his example, and stop exploring themselves, to become biographers of the great explorer, spending most of their energies in repeating his great trips thru the ocean as if these were their own, ultimately reducing the legacy of such genius to the habit of writing stories and eating pop-corn.

···

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.15.16.10]

  On 2016/09/15 4:02 PM, Richard Marken

wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2016.09.15. 1300)]

These are all fair comments. I intended the land-based maritime

explorations of the Pacific from Mexico and Central America to
represent those earlier forays into negative feedback and control
hierarchy (was there actually a proposal for hierarchic control
before Powers?). But I guess that analogy didn’t get across. I would
analogise the discovery of the control of input to Magellan’s
discovery of the “input” to his strait, which he followed because he
was sharp enough to note that the water did not change its salinity
as he penetrated into this narrow inlet. He knew then that it had to
come out on the other side. Very like Powers realizing the
possibilities of input control in hierarchic form before he knew how
it would actually come out.

(I'm sensitive to this because I had all the opportunities that

Powers had, and didn’t see it. I had played with analogue control
systems as an undergraduate in the mid 50’s. I had published a
three-level control system as a theory for the difference between
passive and haptic touch in 1972. I had Layered Protocol Theory in
1984. I was nosing around the entrance to the “Strait” for decades,
but didn’t go in as Powers did. So I perhaps have a better
appreciation of his genius than most people do.)

Martin
          Martin

Taylor (2016.09.14.15.10) –

          RM: I think it was a great idea to describe Powers'

discoveries as analogous to those of Magellan. I just wish
that you had selected as examples of Powers’ discoveries
those that were truly Magellanic.

          RM: The first discovery you mention is the " 'negative

feedback’ concept". This was certainly an important
component of Bill’s theory but the concept of negative
feedback had been introduced to psychology well before
Powers came along. What was Magellanic about Powers’ use
of the negative feedback concept was his discovery that
organisms in a negative feedback relationship with their
environment are controlling their own inputs, not their
outputs. Before Powers, psychologists thought that the
negative feedback concept, as in the TOTE unit, was
consistent with the idea that input causes output.

          RM: The next of Powers' discoveries that you mention is

his “map of the possibilities of control hierarchies”.
Again, hierarchical control models of behavior existed
well before Powers came along but these were control of
output models. Powers discovery was that a control
hierarchy must be organized around control of input, not
output.

          RM: I think Powers' truly Magellanic discoveries were

of the fact that behavior is a control process and that
this process is organized around the control of perceptual
input variables. Like Magellan’s discovery of the new,
Westward route to the Spice Islands, these discoveries
provided a completely new route to understanding the
behavior of living systems – a route that is directed
toward the discovery of the variables that organisms
control rather than the variables that control organisms.

In the text bellow…

image00353.jpg

···

From: Richard Marken [mailto:rsmarken@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:02 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: The straits of W.T.Magellan

[From Rick Marken (2016.09.15. 1300)]

Martin Taylor (2016.09.14.15.10) –

RM: I think it was a great idea to describe Powers’ discoveries as analogous to those of Magellan. I just wish that you had selected as examples of Powers’ discoveries those that were truly Magellanic.

HB : Don’t worry Rick. Martin probably wanted to emphasize how great inventor Bill was. And it was really nice description. Do you really have to spoil everything ?

RM: The first discovery you mention is the " ‘negative feedback’ concept". This was certainly an important component of Bill’s theory but the concept of negative feedback had been introduced to psychology well before Powers came along. What was Magellanic about Powers’ use of the negative feedback concept was his discovery that organisms in a negative feedback relationship with their environment are controlling their own inputs, not their outputs. Before Powers, psychologists thought that the negative feedback concept, as in the TOTE unit, was consistent with the idea that input causes output.

HB :

No joke. Are you sure about this ? It would be nice if you remember what you wrote here. I hope you don’t think that »ouput controls input« ?

RM: The next of Powers’ discoveries that you mention is his “map of the possibilities of control hierarchies”. Again, hierarchical control models of behavior existed well before Powers came along but these were control of output models. Powers discovery was that a control hierarchy must be organized around control of input, not output.

HB :

Could you provide literature where hierarchical control model of behavior existed before Bill ? When I was studying carver/Scheiers book (1998) it was obvious that they have stolen Bill’s »control theory«. But they kept him as a reference when they described hierarchy of goals. But I’m sure that would use hierarchy from somebody else to avoig Bill as a reference. So i assume that couldn’t steal it anywhere else. So they used Bill’s. Again I’m really interrested where did you find hierarchical control model before Bill ?

RM: I think Powers’ truly Magellanic discoveries were of the fact that behavior is a control process and that this process is organized around the control of perceptual input variables.

HB :

You are contradicting yourself again. If organisms control input not output as you wrote above, how can behavior be a control process. You missed something. Behavior is not control. Remember. You need proof for this. You haven’t show it yet that behavior is control and that it can »control« input.Â

RM : Like Magellan’s discovery of the new, Westward route to the Spice Islands, these discoveries provided a completely new route to understanding the behavior of living systems – a route that is directed toward the discovery of the variables that organisms control rather than the variables that control organisms.

HB , Don’t tell me that you back in bussines again. RCT (Rick Control Theory). Are you saying again that »variables« that organism controls are in outer environment and they are called »controlled variables« ???!!!. And there is probably again some »controlled perceptual variable« which is entering comparator ???!!!. Show me how this works in Bill’s diagram ?

cid:image001.png@01D1CF6C.D20A8F20

P.S. Barb can you see now who is taking care, that Bill’s legacy is preserved. Me or Rick ? Rick still thinks that »Behavior is Control« what is contrary to Bill’s PCT where »Perception is Controlled«. Rick’s diagram is much different from Bill’s.

Best,

Boris

Best regards

Rick

Not every European ship-borne expedition that explored the west coast of America started by using the Straits of Magellan; several Spanish expeditions launched from Mexico or elsewhere along west coast of the Americas. Again we have a parallel, there being other negative feedback theories of psychology such as “ecological psychology”, but as with the coastal explorations starting from west coast harbours, they seem to have an ad-hoc feel to them, bits and pieces having situation specific components, in contrast to the “all-by-sea” purity of the control hierarchy route pioneered by Powers.

I offer the Magellan analogy as a salute to Powers, not as a man who explored the whole world of Psychology, but as one who through the control hierarchy opened that wide world to coherent exploration from a new direction, a world in which well known phenomena can be seen as belonging to a whole rather than being colonized by specialists in different areas, in the way the fighting colonial powers colonized the different Spice Islands, each island separate and distinct. As with Magellan, the world he opened will probably not be fully explored for a very long time, but all future explorers should acknowledge a debt to W. T. Powers.

Martin

Richard S. Marken

“The childhood of the human race is far from over. We have a long way to go before most people will understand that what they do for others is just as important to their well-being as what they do for themselves.” – William T. Powers

As I said before Alex. I really like you when you are on your field. But when you are entering the field that you don’t understand well you are quite far from science.

PCT is scientific theory and Bill is great inventor. If you don’t want to study his theory, you can beleive me that PCT is great theory. There are really some upgrades that would be wellcome to PCT but basically it can work to simulate any organism if the technology would be strong enough to simulate so many control units sinchronically. As I’m informed the far as it goes today was simulation of how bacteria works. The discussion must be somewhere on CSGnet. Where is cell and the whole organisms. Bill has quite clear vision and I’m sure it will come out one day. Of course if Rick will not »fall it into pieces«. But as I’m repeating again and again there is needed a lot of knowledge to understand his theory with all his evidences he offered and that can be added. When you see once how hundreds control units works as they should by Bill’s vission, it’s really something incredible. But i hope I’ll live to see all of them.

Best,

Boris

···

From: Alex Gomez-Marin [mailto:agomezmarin@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:31 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: The straits of W.T.Magellan

We can now start another bad-ass thread of argument about the appropriateness of the analogies made in Martin’s captivating story… Yet, let me suggest, as a more fruitful creative exercise, to self-reflect on whether Powers’ “progeny of explorers” may commit the sin of ceasing to follow his example, and stop exploring themselves, to become biographers of the great explorer, spending most of their energies in repeating his great trips thru the ocean as if these were their own, ultimately reducing the legacy of such genius to the habit of writing stories and eating pop-corn.

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.15.16.10]

On 2016/09/15 4:02 PM, Richard Marken wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2016.09.15. 1300)]

Martin Taylor (2016.09.14.15.10) –

RM: I think it was a great idea to describe Powers’ discoveries as analogous to those of Magellan. I just wish that you had selected as examples of Powers’ discoveries those that were truly Magellanic.

RM: The first discovery you mention is the " ‘negative feedback’ concept". This was certainly an important component of Bill’s theory but the concept of negative feedback had been introduced to psychology well before Powers came along. What was Magellanic about Powers’ use of the negative feedback concept was his discovery that organisms in a negative feedback relationship with their environment are controlling their own inputs, not their outputs. Before Powers, psychologists thought that the negative feedback concept, as in the TOTE unit, was consistent with the idea that input causes output.

RM: The next of Powers’ discoveries that you mention is his “map of the possibilities of control hierarchies”. Again, hierarchical control models of behavior existed well before Powers came along but these were control of output models. Powers discovery was that a control hierarchy must be organized around control of input, not output.

RM: I think Powers’ truly Magellanic discoveries were of the fact that behavior is a control process and that this process is organized around the control of perceptual input variables. Like Magellan’s discovery of the new, Westward route to the Spice Islands, these discoveries provided a completely new route to understanding the behavior of living systems – a route that is directed toward the discovery of the variables that organisms control rather than the variables that control organisms.

These are all fair comments. I intended the land-based maritime explorations of the Pacific from Mexico and Central America to represent those earlier forays into negative feedback and control hierarchy (was there actually a proposal for hierarchic control before Powers?). But I guess that analogy didn’t get across. I would analogise the discovery of the control of input to Magellan’s discovery of the “input” to his strait, which he followed because he was sharp enough to note that the water did not change its salinity as he penetrated into this narrow inlet. He knew then that it had to come out on the other side. Very like Powers realizing the possibilities of input control in hierarchic form before he knew how it would actually come out.

(I’m sensitive to this because I had all the opportunities that Powers had, and didn’t see it. I had played with analogue control systems as an undergraduate in the mid 50’s. I had published a three-level control system as a theory for the difference between passive and haptic touch in 1972. I had Layered Protocol Theory in 1984. I was nosing around the entrance to the “Strait” for decades, but didn’t go in as Powers did. So I perhaps have a better appreciation of his genius than most people do.)

Martin

[Martin Taylor
2016.09.15.16.10]

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.16.14:40 PST]

Martin,

I sure appreciate that you persistently defend the integrity of PCT for
the many years that you have been at it.

I was aware that you studied physics before you got interested in
psychology, but had no idea that your path has this much in common with
Powers’ path.

To me, it is highly unfortunate that so many PCTers, coming from
psychology, lack a background in the natural sciences, which is where PCT
belongs. It is unfortunate that the field of psychology does not require
an understanding of natural science. That is why descriptions rule.

Math is certainly no substitute for a basic understanding of natural,
physical relationships. Math is only a language. For my part, I have
never featured math in my writings or posts to CSGnet, but rather go for
illustrations and explanations of the physics as best I can.

Thanks for always being there to rein in the many flights of fancy
nonsense that has been argued too many times on CSGnet down through the
years.

PCT will survive much nonsense, in part thanks to your persistent sanity.

With much appreciation,

Dag

···

(I’m sensitive to
this because I had all the opportunities that Powers had, and didn’t see
it. I had played with analogue control systems as an undergraduate in the
mid 50’s. I had published a three-level control system as a theory for
the difference between passive and haptic touch in 1972. I had Layered
Protocol Theory in 1984. I was nosing around the entrance to the
“Strait” for decades, but didn’t go in as Powers did. So I
perhaps have a better appreciation of his genius than most people
do.)

Martin

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.16/17.54]

Martin
···

Thanks for this, even if it is a little
embarrassing.

[Dag Forsell 2016.09.16.14:40 PST]

    Martin,



    I sure appreciate that you persistently defend the integrity of

PCT for
the many years that you have been at it.

    I was aware that you studied physics before you got interested

in
psychology, but had no idea that your path has this much in
common with
Powers’ path.

    To me, it is highly unfortunate that so many PCTers, coming from

psychology, lack a background in the natural sciences, which is
where PCT
belongs. It is unfortunate that the field of psychology does not
require
an understanding of natural science. That is why descriptions
rule.

  When I started my first full-time job, my boss

happened to be President of the Canadian Psychological
Association. He told me that they had a committee (or maybe the
Board were just talking about having one) to draw up a formal
recommendation that nobody who had taken undergraduate Psychology
should be allowed into a graduate Psychology program, because they
would have too much to unlearn before they could properly start
their research career. Anyone planning to do research in
Psychology should have a general Science background with lots of
mathematics. The “facts” of psychology would change a lot during
their career, but the background science and maths would not, and
as undergraduates they would have learned the facts that their
teachers had learned some little time previously.

  This might apply also to PCT, but I think only in the details of

the mechanisms – the neurophysiology, or the particular structure
of the hierarchy. As you say, its base is firmly in basic physics.

    Math is certainly no substitute for a basic understanding of

natural,
physical relationships. Math is only a language. For my part, I
have
never featured math in my writings or posts to CSGnet, but
rather go for
illustrations and explanations of the physics as best I can.

    Thanks for always being there to rein in the many flights of

fancy
nonsense that has been argued too many times on CSGnet down
through the
years.

    PCT will survive much nonsense, in part thanks to your

persistent sanity.

  Yes. PCT doesn't depend on any one person. Once the

idea is out in the open, there will always be some to build on it.

    With much appreciation,



    Dag

Dear Dag,

You’ve said “descriptions rule” in psychology. I don’t know if you are aware but, to my knowledge, every psychology undergraduate gets core teaching in functional modelling research
(e.g. connectionist models) . Some courses provide classes where students build and test their own functional models of behaviour. This tradition emerged around the same time as Bill Powers papers in Byte and is now very
mainstream. There is a summary here:

http://www2.units.it/delmisfa/papers/CognitiveModeling2007.pdf

The difficulty is that the majority of this work, from what I can tell, is from a linear causal point of view so is problmatic for understanding
control.

Best wishes

Vyv

Math is certainly no substitute for a basic understanding of natural, physical relationships. Math is only a language. For my part, I have never featured math in my writings or posts to CSGnet, but rather go for illustrations and explanations of the physics
as best I can.

Thanks for always being there to rein in the many flights of fancy nonsense that has been argued too many times on CSGnet down through the years.

PCT will survive much nonsense, in part thanks to your persistent sanity.

With much appreciation,

Dag

···

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.15.16.10]

(I’m sensitive to this because I had all the opportunities that Powers had, and didn’t see it. I had played with analogue control systems as an undergraduate in the mid 50’s. I had published a three-level
control system as a theory for the difference between passive and haptic touch in 1972. I had Layered Protocol Theory in 1984. I was nosing around the entrance to the “Strait” for decades, but didn’t go in as Powers did. So I perhaps have a better appreciation
of his genius than most people do.)

Martin

Sorry to jump in Dag,

what you wrote is very realstic picture of what is happening on CSGnet. I agree with you speccially in part where you describe the defectivenes of psychology.

Martin is definitely person who kept balance on CSGnet in course of PCT. Although Rick almost persuaded him in some moments into RCT. I’m glad that Rick didn’t successeded….

Dag :

Martin,

I sure appreciate that you persistently defend the integrity of PCT for the many years that you have been at it.

HB : i think I remember when Martin’s turn into full PCT direction might have occured… We had a lot of conversations….

MT :

Almost everyone (Boris excluded) seem to agree that the experimenter does control the subject’s behaviour,…

HB :

It was hard time when I thought i was alone. But than Martin came on scene… Really great moment…

Best,

Boris

···

From: Dag Forssell [mailto:csgarchive@pctresources.com]
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:43 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: The straits of W.T.Magellan

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.16.14:40 PST]

Martin,

I sure appreciate that you persistently defend the integrity of PCT for the many years that you have been at it.

I was aware that you studied physics before you got interested in psychology, but had no idea that your path has this much in common with Powers’ path.

To me, it is highly unfortunate that so many PCTers, coming from psychology, lack a background in the natural sciences, which is where PCT belongs. It is unfortunate that the field of psychology does not require an understanding of natural science. That is why descriptions rule.

Math is certainly no substitute for a basic understanding of natural, physical relationships. Math is only a language. For my part, I have never featured math in my writings or posts to CSGnet, but rather go for illustrations and explanations of the physics as best I can.

Thanks for always being there to rein in the many flights of fancy nonsense that has been argued too many times on CSGnet down through the years.

PCT will survive much nonsense, in part thanks to your persistent sanity.

With much appreciation,

Dag

[Martin Taylor 2016.09.15.16.10]

(I’m sensitive to this because I had all the opportunities that Powers had, and didn’t see it. I had played with analogue control systems as an undergraduate in the mid 50’s. I had published a three-level control system as a theory for the difference between passive and haptic touch in 1972. I had Layered Protocol Theory in 1984. I was nosing around the entrance to the “Strait” for decades, but didn’t go in as Powers did. So I perhaps have a better appreciation of his genius than most people do.)

Martin