[From Bill Powers (941006.1035 MDT)]
Oded Maler (941006)--
RE: relation of perception to physical world
I think this poses a substantial obstacle to the methodology of
"testing for the controlled variable". In fact, I think, it makes
it impossible, except for trivial artificial settings.
True, if you think of testing for the actual, objective, environmental
controlled variable. But if you include the human experimenter in the
picture, then the experimenter's problem is only that of constructing a
self-consistent perceptual picture of what the other organism is
controlling, with which other observers (and the behaving system itself)
can agree. That can be done without having to know the nature of the One
True Reality.
···
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Rick Marken (941006.0740)--
Your post brings up all the points I brought up in answer to Gary Cziko.
We must be thinking of the same theory.
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Best to all,
Bill P.
[From Oded Maler (941011)]
(Bill Powers (941006.1035 MDT - but received only today))
···
*
* Oded Maler (941006)--
* RE: relation of perception to physical world
*
* >I think this poses a substantial obstacle to the methodology of
* >"testing for the controlled variable". In fact, I think, it makes
* >it impossible, except for trivial artificial settings.
*
* True, if you think of testing for the actual, objective, environmental
* controlled variable. But if you include the human experimenter in the
* picture, then the experimenter's problem is only that of constructing a
^^^^
* self-consistent perceptual picture of what the other organism is
* controlling, with which other observers (and the behaving system itself)
* can agree. That can be done without having to know the nature of the One
* True Reality.
First, I think this explains why psychology can *never* become
a science (in the physical science sense of the world). This is
not particular to PCT but inherent in the phenomenon.
Secondly, the ability of the experimenter to do so is limited to
a very negligible fraction of the spectrum of perceptual variables.
It van be done in lowest level perceptions via "objective" measurements,
and it can be roughly done for highest level variables via the (illusionary)
"objectification" involved in categories and words. But to my mind, all
the meat is inside the mid-levels, and there, there is neither measurement
devices nor words to compare one person's varibale with another's.
--Oded
--
Oded Maler, VERIMAG, Miniparc ZIRST, 38330 Montbonnot, France
Phone: 76909635 Fax: 76413620 e-mail: Oded.Maler@imag.fr