[from Mary Powers 9704229]
Long-time CSGers will be sorry to hear, as I was, of the death of Toto
Grandes last month. Toto came to a number of the early CSG conferences in
the '80's. He was by turns erudite, incomprehensible, charming, irritating,
etc., etc. - in other words a human being like the rest of us. I had hoped
that he would make it to another conference some time, and regret that he
never did and never will.
* * *
Ellery Lanier (970427.12.33MST)
I share a lot of your feelings about much of the content of csgnet. It is
not you who are the outsider, however.
I think Bill has pursued the discussion with Hans so long because he (Bill)
_is_ (or was) an engineer, and because control theory is indeed foundational
to PCT. Hans at various times has accused Bill's engineering expertise of
being simplistic, obsolete, etc. Bill has a rather modest assessment of his
own skills and accomplishments in the field, and, at 70, has been willing to
explore the idea that he hasn't kept up to date and that newer approaches
might be better. At this point, I believe that he thinks that Modern
Control Theory is for the most part unnecessarily complex for his purposes,
whatever its uses elsewhere (and possibly in PCT in the distant future).
There are several ways of dealing with the technical aspects of control
theory as used in PCT.
1) Take it on faith that Bill isn't bullshitting you. (My solution)
2) Learn chapter 4 in Dick Robertson's book.
3) Learn the material in the Quantitative Analysis chapter of Living Control
Systems.
I am reasonably comfortable most of the time with my mostly verbal,
non-mathematical understanding. This is as far as most people will ever go,
especially in the applications fields like education or therapy. In a way,
it's like cooking. You can learn recipes, and follow them (add a tablespoon
of water and one of flour for high altitude). You do better if you
understand the principles involved (then you can convert other recipes to
high altitude yourself). You may decide that it is interesting to learn
something of the chemistry involved in a general way. It is not necessary,
however, to get a PhD in food chemistry to be a sophisticated cook. I think
you can trash a lot of net stuff with a clear conscience if it is irrelevant
to _your_ purposes. Your interests and expertise lie elsewhere.
Congratulations on your doctorate!
* * *
Chuck Tucker (970428)
There is (presumably) an imagination mode at every level _except_ the
intensity level. Bill pointed out to me that there can't be one there
because that is where the output loops through the environment. However,
from the sensation level on up, yes. Why not? Imagination at the sensation
level could be described as a deep hallucination - visual, auditory,
tactile. Some dreams have that quality. I get the idea that it's what
makes life so difficult for schizophrenics.
Mary P.