Traffic merging

CSGnet Archive CSG2018
1

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 9.55)]

Any thoughts on what perceptions are controlled when driving and merging into traffic? That is, changing lanes when there are other vehicles in the other lane.

Regards,

Rupert

2

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0630 ET)]

I'm looking for an opening (space between other cars) in the other lane that
is safe to enter. "Safe to enter" means the opening in the other lane is
stable or increasing.

Fred Nickols

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Rupert Young <rupert@perceptualrobots.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:54 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Traffic merging

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 9.55)]

Any thoughts on what perceptions are controlled when driving and merging
into traffic? That is, changing lanes when there are other vehicles in the
other lane.

Regards,

Rupert

3

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0655 ET)]

P.S. if the opening in the other lane is decreasing but the opening is
large enough and decreasing at a rate that still makes it safe to enter,
I'll move to the other lane. In the end, I guess I'm looking at "safe to
enter."

Fred Nickols

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Nickols <fred@nickols.us>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 6:32 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: RE: Traffic merging

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0630 ET)]

I'm looking for an opening (space between other cars) in the other lane that
is safe to enter. "Safe to enter" means the opening in the other lane is
stable or increasing.

Fred Nickols

-----Original Message-----
From: Rupert Young <rupert@perceptualrobots.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:54 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Traffic merging

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 9.55)]

Any thoughts on what perceptions are controlled when driving and merging
into traffic? That is, changing lanes when there are other vehicles in the
other lane.

Regards,

Rupert

4

[Bruce Nevin 2018-04-25_09:50:39 ET]

If there are two lanes in the direction one is merging, include “no vehicle is entering that space from the other side”.

More generally, “No other vehicle is entering that space.”

···

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0655 ET)]

P.S. if the opening in the other lane is decreasing but the opening is

large enough and decreasing at a rate that still makes it safe to enter,

I’ll move to the other lane. In the end, I guess I’m looking at "safe to

enter."

Fred Nickols

-----Original Message-----

From: Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 6:32 AM

To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu

Subject: RE: Traffic merging

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0630 ET)]

I’m looking for an opening (space between other cars) in the other lane that

is safe to enter. “Safe to enter” means the opening in the other lane is

stable or increasing.

Fred Nickols

-----Original Message-----

From: Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:54 AM

To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu

Subject: Traffic merging

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 9.55)]

Any thoughts on what perceptions are controlled when driving and merging

into traffic? That is, changing lanes when there are other vehicles in the

other lane.

Regards,

Rupert

5 
[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 15.30)]

What is the definition of "safe to enter."? What about the speed of the other cars, even though the space is

stable?
Regards,
Rupert

···

On 25/04/2018 11:57, Fred Nickols
wrote:


[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0655 ET)]
P.S. if the opening in the other lane is decreasing but the opening is
large enough and decreasing at a rate that still makes it safe to enter,
I'll move to the other lane. In the end, I guess I'm looking at "safe to
enter."
6

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1055 ET)]

My speed has to match that of the traffic in the next lane or it’s not safe to enter.

Fred Nickols

···

From: Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 10:32 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Traffic merging

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 15.30)]

On 25/04/2018 11:57, Fred Nickols wrote:

> ```
> [From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0655 ET)]

> ```

> ```
> P.S.  if the opening in the other lane is decreasing but the opening is

> ```
> large enough and decreasing at a rate that still makes it safe to enter,

> ```
> I'll move to the other lane.  In the end, I guess I'm looking at "safe to

> ```
> enter."

What is the definition of "safe to enter."?

What about the speed of the other cars, even though the space is stable?

Regards,
Rupert

</details>
7

Are we perceiving the ‘speed’ of another car or perceiving whether or not their position is changing relative to ours?

Ed Heidicker

···

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1055 ET)]

My speed has to match that of the traffic in the next lane or it’s not safe to enter.

Fred Nickols

From: Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 10:32 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Traffic merging

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 15.30)]

On 25/04/2018 11:57, Fred Nickols wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0655 ET)]

 

P.S.  if the opening in the other lane is decreasing but the opening is

large enough and decreasing at a rate that still makes it safe to enter,

I'll move to the other lane.  In the end, I guess I'm looking at "safe to

enter."

What is the definition of “safe to enter.”?

What about the speed of the other cars, even though the space is stable?

Regards,
Rupert

–

Ed Heidicker
828 274-5929

8

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1212 ET)]

I think I am perceiving my car’s position in relation to the opening in the adjacent lane.

Fred Nickols

···

From: Ed Heidicker heidicker@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 11:00 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Traffic merging

Are we perceiving the ‘speed’ of another car or perceiving whether or not their position is changing relative to ours?

Ed Heidicker

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1055 ET)]

My speed has to match that of the traffic in the next lane or it’s not safe to enter.

Fred Nickols

From: Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 10:32 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Traffic merging

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 15.30)]

On 25/04/2018 11:57, Fred Nickols wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.0655 ET)]

P.S.  if the opening in the other lane is decreasing but the opening is

large enough and decreasing at a rate that still makes it safe to enter,

I'll move to the other lane.  In the end, I guess I'm looking at "safe to

enter."

What is the definition of “safe to enter.”?

What about the speed of the other cars, even though the space is stable?

Regards,
Rupert

–

Ed Heidicker
828 274-5929

9 
[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 18.10)]

The latter I think, the relative speed.

Rupert

···

On 25/04/2018 16:00, Ed Heidicker
wrote:

    Are we  perceiving the 'speed' of another car or

perceiving whether or not their position is changing relative to
ours?

10

I think I am perceiving my car’s position
in relation to the opening in the adjacent lane.

11

The only ‘issue’ I had was with the word speed which we do not and cannot know with any degree of certainty. Given the common example of cruise control no attention needs to be paid to ‘speed’ only to whatever mechanism is designed into the control. If we set cruise control at 65 MPH it doesn’t matter if the speedometer is not measuring the actual speed of the car if let’s say it is faulty in some manner. It will adjust the behavior of the engine to keep the car moving at whatever we enter into the system.

···

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com wrote:

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 23.15)]

(Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1212 ET)]

      I think I am perceiving my car’s position

in relation to the opening in the adjacent lane.

Thanks. So, given all your contributions it I'd say there are

multiple perceptions involved.

The perception of the size of the gap, for which we have a

reference; though in this case perhaps just acts as a threshold.

Once that reference is reached we perceive and control our (lateral)

position relative to the centre of the gap.

We also perceive the speed of the gap (the other cars) relative to

our own and control our speed to match theirs (provided the relative
speed is not too different).

How does that sound?



Rupert

–

Ed Heidicker
828 274-5929

12

Also, don’t we need to have a perception of the rate of shortening of the gap in relation to the time it takes us to move into it? To be honest though I think I use a different process - I try to keep a safe distance behind the car I am behind when switch to their lane, and then a separately look in my mirror or behind to judge both the gap that there will be between my car and the car behind, and I judge the relative velocity of the car behind in the lane I am moving to. If it’s going any faster than me I am unlikely to switch to it’s lane until it slows down and leaves a constant, appropriately sized gap behind me…

Warren

···

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com wrote:

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 23.15)]

(Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1212 ET)]

      I think I am perceiving my car’s position

in relation to the opening in the adjacent lane.

Thanks. So, given all your contributions it I'd say there are

multiple perceptions involved.

The perception of the size of the gap, for which we have a

reference; though in this case perhaps just acts as a threshold.

Once that reference is reached we perceive and control our (lateral)

position relative to the centre of the gap.

We also perceive the speed of the gap (the other cars) relative to

our own and control our speed to match theirs (provided the relative
speed is not too different).

How does that sound?



Rupert

–

Ed Heidicker
828 274-5929

13

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.26 10.30)]

···

On 25/04/2018 23:40, Ed Heidicker
wrote:

    The only 'issue' I had was with the word speed

which we do not and cannot know with any degree of certainty.
Given the common example of cruise control no attention needs to
be paid to ‘speed’ only to whatever mechanism is designed into
the control. If we set cruise control at 65 MPH it doesn’t
matter if the speedometer is not measuring the actual speed of
the car if let’s say it is faulty in some manner. It will adjust
the behavior of the engine to keep the car moving at whatever we
enter into the system.

Yes, we are talking about perceptions of things here,
not necessarily the objective reality. A cruise control system
controls according to the speed that it measures at its sensor,
which may not be the actual speed.

  What I mentioned was relative speed, not speed, which may be

perceived as the rate of expansion of the image of the object in
the field of view.

Rupert

14

Ok, perhaps we also judge if the gap is shortening . Though isn’t
that the equivalent of judging the relative velocity of the car
behind in the other lane?

···

On 26/04/2018 10:14, Warren Mansell
wrote:

    Also, don’t we need to have a perception of the rate of

shortening of the gap in relation to the time it takes us to
move into it? To be honest though I think I use a different
process - I try to keep a safe distance behind the car I am
behind when switch to their lane, and then a separately look in
my mirror or behind to judge both the gap that there will be
between my car and the car behind, and I judge the relative
velocity of the car behind in the lane I am moving to. If it’s
going any faster than me I am unlikely to switch to it’s lane
until it slows down and leaves a constant, appropriately sized
gap behind me…

Warren

    On 25 Apr 2018, at 23:40, Ed Heidicker <heidicker@gmail.com        >

wrote:

        The only 'issue' I had was with the word speed

which we do not and cannot know with any degree of
certainty. Given the common example of cruise control no
attention needs to be paid to ‘speed’ only to whatever
mechanism is designed into the control. If we set cruise
control at 65 MPH it doesn’t matter if the speedometer is
not measuring the actual speed of the car if let’s say it is
faulty in some manner. It will adjust the behavior of the
engine to keep the car moving at whatever we enter into the
system.

          On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 6:12 PM,

Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com
wrote:

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 23.15)]

(Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1212 ET)]

                      I think I am perceiving my

car’s position in relation to the opening in
the adjacent lane.

               Thanks. So, given all your contributions it

I’d say there are multiple perceptions involved.

              The perception of the size of the gap, for which we

have a reference; though in this case perhaps just
acts as a threshold.

              Once that reference is reached we perceive and control

our (lateral) position relative to the centre of the
gap.

              We also perceive the speed of the gap (the other cars)

relative to our own and control our speed to match
theirs (provided the relative speed is not too
different).

              How does that sound?



                  Rupert

–
Ed Heidicker

              828 274-5929
15

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.26.0635 ET)]

I think it’s a matter of how fast it is shortening and how long it will continue to be safe to move over. It could be shortening but the gap is big enough that I have time to change lanes. On the other hand, the gap could only be marginally big enough and shortening at a rate that prevents changing lanes.

Gee, I wonder if a drivers’ education course would help with this?

Fred Nickols

···

From: Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 5:49 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Traffic merging

Ok, perhaps we also judge if the gap is shortening . Though isn’t that the equivalent of judging the relative velocity of the car behind in the other lane?

On 26/04/2018 10:14, Warren Mansell wrote:

Also, don’t we need to have a perception of the rate of shortening of the gap in relation to the time it takes us to move into it? To be honest though I think I use a different process - I try to keep a safe distance behind the car I am behind when switch to their lane, and then a separately look in my mirror or behind to judge both the gap that there will be between my car and the car behind, and I judge the relative velocity of the car behind in the lane I am moving to. If it’s going any faster than me I am unlikely to switch to it’s lane until it slows down and leaves a constant, appropriately sized gap behind me…

Warren

On 25 Apr 2018, at 23:40, Ed Heidicker heidicker@gmail.com wrote:

The only ‘issue’ I had was with the word speed which we do not and cannot know with any degree of certainty. Given the common example of cruise control no attention needs to be paid to ‘speed’ only to whatever mechanism is designed into the control. If we set cruise control at 65 MPH it doesn’t matter if the speedometer is not measuring the actual speed of the car if let’s say it is faulty in some manner. It will adjust the behavior of the engine to keep the car moving at whatever we enter into the system.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com wrote:

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 23.15)]

(Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1212 ET)]

I think I am perceiving my car’s position in relation to the opening in the adjacent lane.

Thanks. So, given all your contributions it I’d say there are multiple perceptions involved.

The perception of the size of the gap, for which we have a reference; though in this case perhaps just acts as a threshold.

Once that reference is reached we perceive and control our (lateral) position relative to the centre of the gap.

We also perceive the speed of the gap (the other cars) relative to our own and control our speed to match theirs (provided the relative speed is not too different).

How does that sound?

Rupert

–

Ed Heidicker
828 274-5929

16

[Bruce Nevin 2018-04-26_10:46:20 ET]

Perceptions (imagined) of others’ intentions may be controlled. An aggressive driver may presume that the driver behind the gap controls to avoid a rear-end collision.

···

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 6:37 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.04.26.0635 ET)]

I think it’s a matter of how fast it is shortening and how long it will continue to be safe to move over. It could be shortening but the gap is big enough that I have time to change lanes. On the other hand, the gap could only be marginally big enough and shortening at a rate that prevents changing lanes.

Gee, I wonder if a drivers’ education course would help with this?

Fred Nickols

From: Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 5:49 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Traffic merging

Ok, perhaps we also judge if the gap is shortening . Though isn’t that the equivalent of judging the relative velocity of the car behind in the other lane?

On 26/04/2018 10:14, Warren Mansell wrote:

Also, don’t we need to have a perception of the rate of shortening of the gap in relation to the time it takes us to move into it? To be honest though I think I use a different process - I try to keep a safe distance behind the car I am behind when switch to their lane, and then a separately look in my mirror or behind to judge both the gap that there will be between my car and the car behind, and I judge the relative velocity of the car behind in the lane I am moving to. If it’s going any faster than me I am unlikely to switch to it’s lane until it slows down and leaves a constant, appropriately sized gap behind me…

Warren

On 25 Apr 2018, at 23:40, Ed Heidicker heidicker@gmail.com wrote:

The only ‘issue’ I had was with the word speed which we do not and cannot know with any degree of certainty. Given the common example of cruise control no attention needs to be paid to ‘speed’ only to whatever mechanism is designed into the control. If we set cruise control at 65 MPH it doesn’t matter if the speedometer is not measuring the actual speed of the car if let’s say it is faulty in some manner. It will adjust the behavior of the engine to keep the car moving at whatever we enter into the system.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com wrote:

[From Rupert Young (2018.04.25 23.15)]

(Fred Nickols (2018.04.25.1212 ET)]

I think I am perceiving my car’s position in relation to the opening in the adjacent lane.

Thanks. So, given all your contributions it I’d say there are multiple perceptions involved.

The perception of the size of the gap, for which we have a reference; though in this case perhaps just acts as a threshold.

Once that reference is reached we perceive and control our (lateral) position relative to the centre of the gap.

We also perceive the speed of the gap (the other cars) relative to our own and control our speed to match theirs (provided the relative speed is not too different).

How does that sound?

Rupert

–

Ed Heidicker
828 274-5929

17

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.26.11.34]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-04-26_10:46:20 ET]

      Perceptions (imagined) of others' intentions may be

controlled. An aggressive driver may presume that the driver
behind the gap controls to avoid a rear-end collision.

Yes, but that is not a controlled perception. In imagination you may

control it so that your imagined following driver does control to
avoid a rear-end collision, but you aren’t influencing the actual
driver’s intentions. The aggressive driver may include a perception
drawn from imagination, that the following driver is controlling for
avoiding a collision, in the same way that driver includes a
perception that the road ahead is smooth enough that driving over it
will be feasible. That perception is not controllable either, but it
is equally relevant to the success of controlling for perceiving
oneself to be driving in the desired lane between the two cars that
bound the original gap.

Martin
···

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 6:37 AM, Fred
Nickols fred@nickols.us
wrote:

                [From

Fred Nickols (2018.04.26.0635 ET)]

                I

think it’s a matter of how fast it is shortening and
how long it will continue to be safe to move over.
It could be shortening but the gap is big enough
that I have time to change lanes. On the other
hand, the gap could only be marginally big enough
and shortening at a rate that prevents changing
lanes.

                Gee,

I wonder if a drivers’ education course would help
with this?

                Fred

Nickols

From: Rupert Young <rupert@perceptualrobots.com >
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 5:49 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Traffic merging

              Ok, perhaps we also judge if

the gap is shortening . Though isn’t that the
equivalent of judging the relative velocity of the car
behind in the other lane?

                    On

26/04/2018 10:14, Warren Mansell wrote:

                      Also,

don’t we need to have a perception of the rate
of shortening of the gap in relation to the
time it takes us to move into it? To be honest
though I think I use a different process - I
try to keep a safe distance behind the car I
am behind when switch to their lane, and then
a separately look in my mirror or behind to
judge both the gap that there will be between
my car and the car behind, and I judge the
relative velocity of the car behind in the
lane I am moving to. If it’s going any faster
than me I am unlikely to switch to it’s lane
until it slows down and leaves a constant,
appropriately sized gap behind me…

Warren

                      On 25 Apr 2018, at 23:40, Ed Heidicker <heidicker@gmail.com                          >

wrote:

                          The only 'issue'

I had was with the word speed which we do
not and cannot know with any degree of
certainty. Given the common example of
cruise control no attention needs to be
paid to ‘speed’ only to whatever mechanism
is designed into the control. If we set
cruise control at 65 MPH it doesn’t matter
if the speedometer is not measuring the
actual speed of the car if let’s say it is
faulty in some manner. It will adjust the
behavior of the engine to keep the car
moving at whatever we enter into the
system.

                            On Wed, Apr 25,

2018 at 6:12 PM, Rupert Young <rupert@perceptualrobots.com >
wrote:

                                [From

Rupert Young (2018.04.25 23.15)]

                                (Fred

Nickols (2018.04.25.1212 ET)]

                                    I think

I am perceiving my car’s
position in relation to the
opening in the adjacent lane.

                                Thanks. So, given all your

contributions it I’d say there are
multiple perceptions involved.

                                The perception of the size of the

gap, for which we have a reference;
though in this case perhaps just
acts as a threshold.

                                Once that reference is reached we

perceive and control our (lateral)
position relative to the centre of
the gap.

                                We also perceive the speed of the

gap (the other cars) relative to our
own and control our speed to match
theirs (provided the relative speed
is not too different).

                                How does that sound?



                                                                        Rupert

–

                                Ed

Heidicker
828 274-5929

18

[Bruce Nevin 2018-04-26_18:20:11 ET]

Yes. ‘Control’ in imagination is not closed through the environment. But it is subject to environmental disturbances. :slight_smile:

In my state, if you rear-end me it’s presumed to be your fault (burden of proof is on you). I have known some folks who definitely control a perception of that (legal and insurance) aspect of the environment as part of their perception of how ‘available’ a space is on an adjacent lane. Another one is ‘our’ driver’s beat-up used car vs. the other guy’s shiny, expensive car. But this perspective comes from 13 years commuting an hour each way on Rt. 128 around Boston. YMMV. My general point is that not all the relevant variables are perceptions of the physical environment, which are seldom the entire premise of road rage.

There’s a tendency in rush-hour traffic to perceive one’s speed and progress relative to surrounding vehicles rather than relative to the terrain. Some folks are mightily frustrated if they can’t pass, or if they are passed. I once had a guy pass me, pull in front, and jam on his brakes while glaring at me in his rear-view mirror–apparently because I had slowed a bit to allow someone with a turn signal on to slip into the space in front of me. Imagined perceptions controlled with non-imaginary effects. Certainly disturbed my control in imagination of how drivers around me could be expected to move.

This runs far afield into questions of how many of the inputs to an input function originate (perhaps partly) in imagination. We should probably stick closer to Rupert’s concern with designing autonomous vehicles. (And defer considering some people’s urge to trick them.)

···

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.26.11.34]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-04-26_10:46:20 ET]

      Perceptions (imagined) of others' intentions may be

controlled. An aggressive driver may presume that the driver
behind the gap controls to avoid a rear-end collision.

Yes, but that is not a controlled perception. In imagination you may

control it so that your imagined following driver does control to
avoid a rear-end collision, but you aren’t influencing the actual
driver’s intentions. The aggressive driver may include a perception
drawn from imagination, that the following driver is controlling for
avoiding a collision, in the same way that driver includes a
perception that the road ahead is smooth enough that driving over it
will be feasible. That perception is not controllable either, but it
is equally relevant to the success of controlling for perceiving
oneself to be driving in the desired lane between the two cars that
bound the original gap.

Martin

      On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 6:37 AM, Fred

Nickols fred@nickols.us
wrote:

                [From

Fred Nickols (2018.04.26.0635 ET)]

                I

think it’s a matter of how fast it is shortening and
how long it will continue to be safe to move over.
It could be shortening but the gap is big enough
that I have time to change lanes. On the other
hand, the gap could only be marginally big enough
and shortening at a rate that prevents changing
lanes.

                Gee,

I wonder if a drivers’ education course would help
with this?

                Fred

Nickols

From: Rupert Young <rupert@perceptualrobots.com >
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 5:49 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Traffic merging

              Ok, perhaps we also judge if

the gap is shortening . Though isn’t that the
equivalent of judging the relative velocity of the car
behind in the other lane?

                    On

26/04/2018 10:14, Warren Mansell wrote:

                      Also,

don’t we need to have a perception of the rate
of shortening of the gap in relation to the
time it takes us to move into it? To be honest
though I think I use a different process - I
try to keep a safe distance behind the car I
am behind when switch to their lane, and then
a separately look in my mirror or behind to
judge both the gap that there will be between
my car and the car behind, and I judge the
relative velocity of the car behind in the
lane I am moving to. If it’s going any faster
than me I am unlikely to switch to it’s lane
until it slows down and leaves a constant,
appropriately sized gap behind me…

Warren

                      On 25 Apr 2018, at 23:40, Ed Heidicker <heidicker@gmail.com                          >

wrote:

                          The only 'issue'

I had was with the word speed which we do
not and cannot know with any degree of
certainty. Given the common example of
cruise control no attention needs to be
paid to ‘speed’ only to whatever mechanism
is designed into the control. If we set
cruise control at 65 MPH it doesn’t matter
if the speedometer is not measuring the
actual speed of the car if let’s say it is
faulty in some manner. It will adjust the
behavior of the engine to keep the car
moving at whatever we enter into the
system.

                            On Wed, Apr 25,

2018 at 6:12 PM, Rupert Young <rupert@perceptualrobots.com >
wrote:

                                [From

Rupert Young (2018.04.25 23.15)]

                                (Fred

Nickols (2018.04.25.1212 ET)]

                                    I think

I am perceiving my car’s
position in relation to the
opening in the adjacent lane.

                                Thanks. So, given all your

contributions it I’d say there are
multiple perceptions involved.

                                The perception of the size of the

gap, for which we have a reference;
though in this case perhaps just
acts as a threshold.

                                Once that reference is reached we

perceive and control our (lateral)
position relative to the centre of
the gap.

                                We also perceive the speed of the

gap (the other cars) relative to our
own and control our speed to match
theirs (provided the relative speed
is not too different).

                                How does that sound?



                                                                        Rupert

–

                                Ed

Heidicker
828 274-5929