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CSGnet Archive CSG2001
1

I am writing to you from Istanbul, Turkey on behalf of the Philosophy
Dept. students at Istanbul University. Our purpose in contacting you
is asking for your kind help. Please let us briefly explain you the
challenging situation we are facing in Turkey regarding the book "Evolution
Deceit" published by Harun Yahya.
The writer Harun Yahya has released more than 140 books and he is
known by his serious attacks against the evolution theory. He is trying
to make use of science against Evolution. He is trying to shoot us
with our weapon. During the last year, we tried to determine the scientific
mistakes in his book. We organized conferences in order to avoid youth
suffering from his non-scientific and unfortunate believes in creation.
His strength and capability of playing with words in the name of science
even confuse us sometimes, we should regretfully confess. We will
certainly be grateful if you can support us with your experience and
proficiency in the area. We want to make benefit of your comments
in our conferences, and other studies.

You may find the original text of the book at:
http://harunyahya.com/Eng/EvolDec/e1.html

We'll be looking forward to receive your invaluable support in our
challenging situation in Turkey. We'll be grateful to receive your
comments and critiques regarding his book "Evolution Deceit."
With the hope of hearing from you in the shortest period of time.
Yours truly,
Ferit Guleryuz

2

[From Kenny Kitzke (01.04.07)]

<Ferit Guleryuz (210407)>

<We organized conferences in order to avoid youth

suffering from his non-scientific and unfortunate believes in creation.

His strength and capability of playing with words in the name of science

even confuse us sometimes, we should regretfully confess. We will

certainly be grateful if you can support us with your experience and

proficiency in the area.>

Just so you understand, not everyone who is on the CSGNET, or accepts
Perceptual Control Theory as a plausible theory of behavior and human
psychology, is a believer in Darwinian evolution. I view evolution as a
theory, not a scientific fact.

I have never heard of 'the book "Evolution Deceit" published by Harun Yahya.'
I would not perceive it worthwhile to try to either support or reject the
views of this man, or any man for that matter on how man came into existence.

For such matters I trust the Biblical account believing it to be the word of
the Creator to mankind. The Creator was the only one there to know for sure.
It is His account, by faith, that I rely upon. As a holder of a bachelor of
science degree, I know of no evidence that scientifically refutes the
Biblical creation account.

I have been to Turkey. It is a very lovely country. One of my best
customers and scientific friends is from Turkey and a devout Muslim. I am
sure that some on the CSGNet will be able to help you with your mission, if
they want to do that. :sunglasses:

3

[From Bruce Gregory (2001.0407.1458)]

Kenny Kitzke (01.04.07)

As a holder of a bachelor of
science degree, I know of no evidence that scientifically refutes the
Biblical creation account.

What sort of evidence would take to convince you that the universe was not
created in the past ten thousand years?

BG

4

[From Kenny Kitzke (01.04.08)]

<Bruce Gregory (2001.0407.1458)>

<What sort of evidence would take to convince you that the universe was not
created in the past ten thousand years?>

The post and issue that I responded to, raised by Ferit Guleryuz, was his
desire to gain CSGNet support for evolution science and to specifically help
refute a book titled "Evolution Deceit" published by Harun Yahya. I took his
post to be relating to the origin of human beings. I saw nothing in his post
about the origin of the universe or its age. Perhaps you should read his
post again?

BTW, I have no qualms about the earth possibly being millions or billions of
years old. I do not think that possibility is contradicted in the Genesis
account. And its age is not fact I need to confirm. What Genesis does
contradict is how the first human being came into existence. Was it by a
miraculous creation of a unique and the most advanced life form (species) by
an Almighty Creator being or by chance evolution from lower life forms over
long periods of time?

My conclusion is the former. I just wanted this new person from Turkey to
know that everyone on CSGNet is not of one mind on this tangential issue.
You are welcome to draw your own conclusion and support Ferit. I do not
think different conclusions about the origin of human beings diminishes the
scientific theory of PCT and HPCT as an explanation of the mechanism by which
human beings, and other intelligent living things, behave.

It is a disturbance to some on the CSGNet to discuss issues apart from
science and, for some, issues apart from PCT science (like evolution or the
origin and age of our universe). I respect that. So, if you want to pursue
any of these topics further, please contact me privately.

5

[From Chris Cherpas (2001.04.08.1515 PT)]

Kenny Kitzke (01.04.08)--

...What Genesis does contradict is how the first human being came into
existence. Was it by a miraculous creation of a unique and the most
advanced life form (species) by an Almighty Creator being or by chance
evolution from lower life forms over long periods of time?

People's belief in an Almighty Creator is just more evidence that humans
did evolve from lower life forms. The concept of God is so primitive,
compared with the concepts of science, that it shows how vestigal
elements can coexist with modern adaptations within the same
organism. Can anyone provide any details -- let alone a coherent,
predictive,
or even elegant theory -- based on the concept of God? I challenge anyone
to say anything profound or interesting about the whole God idea, anything
other than just the same old marketing slogans ("He's the biggest, the
baddest,
most powerful entity/whatever you can imagine, so you better watch out!").

If I'm wrong, let the Almighty, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, Creator of
Everything (including this absurd strand) strike me dead!...

(...even pointing my middle finger towards the heavens...)

...Hmm, I thought so.

All Power to the Control Systems

6

[From Bruce Gregory (2001.0408.1910)]

Chris Cherpas (2001.04.08.1515 PT)

If I'm wrong, let the Almighty, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, Creator of
Everything (including this absurd strand) strike me dead!...

You are not too successful giving orders to God, are you? I hope you
learned your lesson.

BG