[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.27.1320 ET)]
Organisms are alive, machines are not.
Fred Nickols
From: Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:30 AM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: PCT: what is the difference between organisms and machines?
–
Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD
Research Group Leader
Instituto de Neurociencias
what is that difference from a pct view?
Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD
Research Group Leader
Instituto de Neurociencias
[philip 2018.03.27]
In my opinion, the most important difference that Billâs system allows for is for the system to have an imagination. See the âimagination connectionâ? in figure 3 of Billâs 1960 paper. This connection goes to the feedback function of the higher order system but much more than this the paper does not describe. The paper describes living things matching their feedback signal to a recording. And in the imagination connection, this recording becomes a feedback signal itself. Bill also defines consciousness in this paper as âthe state of the feedback functionâ?. My interpretation of the model at this point is that consciousness has two states: feedback function and recording. So this two-state feedback function is what distinguishes living things from machines. But others may disagree with this interpretation and say that the state of the feedback function is a symbolic thing, like x or x^2. So what distinguishes living things from machines is the encapsulation of the system.Â
On Tuesday, March 27, 2018, Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com wrote:
what is that difference from a pct view?
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 at 19:22, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:
[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.27.1320 ET)]
Â
Organisms are alive, machines are not.
Â
Fred Nickols
Â
From: Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:30 AM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: PCT: what is the difference between organisms and machines?
Â
–
Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD
Research Group Leader
Instituto de Neurociencias
–
Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD
Research Group Leader
Instituto de Neurociencias
[Martin Taylor 2018.03.27.23.27]
[philip 2018.03.27]
In my opinion, the most important difference that Bill’s systemallows for is for the system to have an imagination.
That doesn't distinguish living things from machines that use
imagination. Problem-solving AIs have been imagining possible
solutions as for as long as I can remember knowing anything about
them.
Martin
See the “imagination connection� in figure 3 of Bill’s 1960 paper.This connection goes to the feedback function of the higher order
system but much more than this the paper does not describe. The
paper describes living things matching their feedback signal to a
recording. And in the imagination connection, this recording
becomes a feedback signal itself. Bill also defines consciousness
in this paper as “the state of the feedback function�. My
interpretation of the model at this point is that consciousness
has two states: feedback function and recording. So this two-state
feedback function is what distinguishes living things from
machines. But others may disagree with this interpretation and say
that the state of the feedback function is a symbolic thing, like
x or x^2. So what distinguishes living things from machines is the
encapsulation of the system.ÂOn Tuesday, March 27, 2018, Alex Gomez-Marin <agomezmarin@gmail.com > > wrote:what is that difference from a pct view?
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 at 19:22, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:
[From Fred Nickols(2018.03.27.1320 ET)]
Â
Organisms are alive, machines arenot.
Â
Fred Nickols
Â
From:
Alex Gomez-Marin <agomezmarin@gmail.com >
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:30 AM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: PCT: what is the difference between
organisms and machines?
Â
–
AlexGomez-Marin, PhD
ResearchGroup Leader
Institutode Neurociencias
–
Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD
Research Group Leader
Instituto de Neurociencias
[philip 2018.03.27]
We would have to discuss this. Can the AI output the state of its feedback function?Â
On Tuesday, March 27, 2018, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:
[Martin Taylor 2018.03.27.23.27]
[philip 2018.03.27]
In my opinion, the most important difference that Billâs systemallows for is for the system to have an imagination.
That doesn't distinguish living things from machines that useimagination. Problem-solving AIs have been imagining possible
solutions as for as long as I can remember knowing anything about
them.MartinSee the âimagination connectionâ? in figure 3 of Billâs 1960 paper.This connection goes to the feedback function of the higher order
system but much more than this the paper does not describe. The
paper describes living things matching their feedback signal to a
recording. And in the imagination connection, this recording
becomes a feedback signal itself. Bill also defines consciousness
in this paper as âthe state of the feedback functionâ?. My
interpretation of the model at this point is that consciousness
has two states: feedback function and recording. So this two-state
feedback function is what distinguishes living things from
machines. But others may disagree with this interpretation and say
that the state of the feedback function is a symbolic thing, like
x or x^2. So what distinguishes living things from machines is the
encapsulation of the system.ÂOn Tuesday, March 27, 2018, Alex Gomez-Marin <agomezmarin@gmail.com > > > wrote:what is that difference from a pct view?
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 at 19:22, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:
[From Fred Nickols(2018.03.27.1320 ET)]
Â
Organisms are alive, machines arenot.
Â
Fred Nickols
Â
From:
Alex Gomez-Marin <agomezmarin@gmail.com >
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:30 AM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: PCT: what is the difference between
organisms and machines?
Â
–
AlexGomez-Marin, PhD
ResearchGroup Leader
Institutode Neurociencias
–
Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD
Research Group Leader
Instituto de Neurociencias