[From Rick Marken (2014.04.01.0940)]
···
Gary Cziko (2014.04.01 07:55 PDT)–
RM: Good catch on the spelling of “whither” but what would you expect from the “loose canon”
GC: CSGnet was started way back around 1989(?) when email listserv was probably the only way to have electronic group discussions. But there are many other options now.
I’ve used Facebook groups quite a lot for my bicycling discussions and I like it. But not everyone wants to get on Facebook and there is no archiving–discussions threads just seem to fade away over time.
I’ve also used Google Groups and Yahoo Groups. These are probably easier to manage than the past or present University of Illinois listserv software. But we would certainly lose so current CSGnet subscrbribers if we moved over. They allow both email and web access.
RM: Why? Couldn’t we maintain both for a while until every one who wanted to move could move?
RM: Another reason I think it would be good to move is that the UofI listserve is rather hard to find. If we put it on Google or Yahoo groups or something like that we might be able to publicize it better.
RM: Anyway, could you or Rupert or someone who uses these groups take the lead in seeing about moving us over to one of them?
Best
Rick
If we did go to something like Google Groups, we’d have a choice between two types of group:
Email list: An email list allows users to post from the web or through email. This is a mailing list group.
Web Forum: A web forum allows people to interact with the group and have engaging and interactive discussions on the web. It has web optimized features enabled including moderation tools. Group members post topics and replies through the web interface, but can still receive updates via email.
I believe I’ve used only the email list option on Google Groups. I can’t imagine that it would be possible to import the current archives if we switched.
– Gary
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Richard S. Marken PhD
www.mindreadings.com
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. – Upton Sinclair
On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Rupert Young rupert@moonsit.co.uk wrote:
This is very timely as I was considering posting a message suggesting moving to a modern forum format.
I find the current format quite awkward to read with all the unformatted quoting. A forum format is much easier to read especially when it comes to quoting. And we wouldn’t need to worry about that pesky timestamp! Have a look at a forum I maintain on www. Atheismuk.com for an example.
There are lots of fori around and we could add one to an existing website. The Web host may actually provide one as an addon.
I wonder if we could find one that allows users to still post by email and will import all the messages from csgnet?
Rupert
On 31 March 2014 11:12:14 GMT-06:00, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:
[From Rick Marken (2014.03.31.1010)] > Adam Matic (2014.3.31.1620 cet)-- > > Hi Rick, > I see the testing post, but not the post from March 28. I think I have the > > > > same problem with a post from March 29. Hi Adam (and everyone else on CSGNet). It turns out that the listserve software at the U of Illinois that support CSGet was changed on March 28. This was supposed to have no impact and to a large extent it didn't. But It apparently did change some settings on individual accounts. For example, I had set up my connection so that I got sent an acknowledgment from the list server that it had distributed my posts when I posted them. Apparently this setting was changed to "no acknowledgment", apparently the default setting, when the software was changed. Also, the address to which posts are to be made was changed from csgnet@listserv.illinois.edu to csgnet@lists.illinois.edu If you post to csgnet@listserv.illinois.edu it still works because it is automatically forwarded to csgnet@lists.illinois.edu. But to be completely up to date we should be posting to csgnet@lists.illinois.edu, as I'm doing with this post. But I'm wondering if we shouldn't think of moving this whole operation to a more easily accessible forum, like a social media site. I don't use social media much but maybe we should think about bringing CSGNet into the 21st century. What little experience I have had with discussions on social media has been rather disappointing-- I prefer writing in email format -- but maybe some of you young people out there, who are the future of PCT, have some helpful ideas about this. Best Rick > > Adam > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 3:25 AM, Richard Marken <rsmarken@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > [From Rick Marken (2014.03.30.0625)} > > > > Just testing to see if the list is still working. They made some > > > > > > > > changes to it, apparently, onMarch 28 and I posted something earlier > > and go no acknowledgement. > > > > On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Adam Matic <adam.matic@gmail.com> wrote: > > > [From Adam Matic (2014.03.28 1430 cet)] > > > > > > > > BA: That's an excellent start. Is the simulation supposed to run in > > > > real > > > > time? I only see movement when changing a parameter value or dragging > > > > the > > > > "playerindex" slider. > > > > > > > > > AM: > > > No real time simulation yet, only fast time. Changing any of the > > > parameters > > > on the GUI recalculates the whole simulation, and the 'playerIndex' just > > > goes over it. > > > > > > I considered adding a real-time 'live' mode, that would be fun. To be > > > > > > > > > > > > able > > > to set reference and disturbance values in real time, and have them > > > graphed, > > > like in the Live Block Demo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BA: The Javascript syntax looks like an object-oriented version of the > > > > C > > > > language, (as does Processing). I didn't have any trouble following > > > > what > > > > the code in basics.js does, but I've had plenty of exposure to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > object-oriented programming. > > > > > > > > > AM: > > > Yeah, looks like OOP. Watch out for pointers to functions, those are > > > weird > > > at first, but very useful. > > > > > > > > > > > BA: Have you seen Vensim? It allows you to create a diagram with > > > > components representing flows (of variables and signals), quantities, > > > > etc. > > > > And the run it as a simulation. A definite plus is that it includes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sophisticated procedures for doing integration, etc. accurately. > > > > Apparently > > > > there is now a free version available online "for evaluation and > > > > educational > > > > use," see [https://www.shodor.org/tutorials/vensim/pre.php](https://www.shodor.org/tutorials/vensim/pre.php) . > > > > > > > > > AM: > > > I've downloaded several of the analog circuit simulators of the SPICE > > > variety, and there are online tools like the Circuit lab. There is also > > > "DESIRE" by Granino A. Korn, author of Electronic Analog Computers book > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > Bill mentioned. There is the modern, free and open source SciLab > > > recommend > > > by control engineers. > > > > > > I can't say I'm a fan. They are certainly useful to some people, but for > > > me, > > > there's too many options and elements to choose from, they are big and > > > > > > > > > > > > cluttered. The biggest pain is that they lack connection to some kind of > > > a > > > 'world'. If you want to simulate something with realistic physics, you > > > really need to understand the physics of it. That is one reason I like > > > > > > > > > > > > robotics - the physics part takes care of it self, I just program the > > > control part. > > > > > > In recent years there was some amazing work on physics engines, mostly > > > driven by game developers, and I'm hoping to find a way way of > > > > > > > > > > > > connecting > > > control systems design with 2D and 3D environments with relatively > > > realistic > > > physics, and all that in the browser, so people could see it and feel > > > what > > > happens instantly. > > > > > > There are great tools to do that naively on a desktop, such as the free > > > > > > > > > > > > Microsoft Robotics Simulator or V-Rep studio: > > > [http://www.coppeliarobotics.com](http://www.coppeliarobotics.com)/ Wonderful thing, very fun, but also too > > > many options and models and scripts and ways to control the robot. I > > > > > > > > > > > > made an > > > inverse pendulum in V-Rep, it kinda worked, but never as stable as I > > > wanted > > > it. > > > > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > -- > > Richard S. Marken PhD > > [www.mindreadings.com](http://www.mindreadings.com) > > > > > > > > > > It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary > > depends upon his not understanding it. -- Upton Sinclair
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Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Any views contained in this message are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of any organizations, commissions, committees or groups with which I am associated.
Gary Cziko (“ZEE-ko”), PhD
Professor Emeritus, Educational Psychology
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
CyclingSavvy Instructor (CSI) & League Cycling Instructor (LCI) of Defensive Bicycle Driving
Past Chair & President, Champaign County Bikes
Past Member, Urbana Sustainability Advisory CommissionMember, Urbana Bicycle & Pedestrian Advisory Commission
Manager, Defensive Bicycle Driving Facebook page
Co-Manager, i am traffic Facebook page