Wurtz, 2013: "Adding corollary discharge to motor computations for action and perception"

[From MK (2014.12.29.1430 CET)]

Corollary discharges, visual stability and 'eye location' in primates.
The pay-off starts just before the 18 minute mark, but you probably
want to watch the whole thing if the topic is your thing. Intro by
Bizzi.

"The annual McGovern Institute symposium took place on May 8, 2013 and
featured nine talks on the subject of motor control and the motor
cortex. In this video, Bob Wurtz of the NIH presents his talk,
entitled “Adding corollary discharge to motor computations for action
and perception.�?"

http://mcgovern.mit.edu/news/videos/bob-wurtz-2013-mcgovern-institute-symposium/

"But you know, when you do physiology, you answer the questions that you ask."

M

[From Rick Marken (2014.12.30.1040)]

MK (2014.12.29.1430 CET)--

MK: Corollary discharges, visual stability and 'eye location' in primates.
The pay-off starts just before the 18 minute mark, but you probably
want to watch the whole thing if the topic is your thing.

RM: It's not quite my thing but I know Bill Powers did some modeling
in this area (saccadic image stabilization). I don't think he ever
published anything on it or discussed it on the net but there is
surely some of his work on this in the archives. He discussed it with
me back when we first met -- so the works was probably done in the
late 1970s.

MK: Intro by Bizzi.

RM: Ah, so that's Bizzi. He did the work on deafferented monkeys,
right? I think he still believes that he has shown that behavior is
the control of output; that sensory feedback is not necessary for
behavior. Shows how prominent you can become if you just go with the
flow and do work that purports to show that behavior is computed
output, not controlled input.

Best

Rick

···

"The annual McGovern Institute symposium took place on May 8, 2013 and
featured nine talks on the subject of motor control and the motor
cortex. In this video, Bob Wurtz of the NIH presents his talk,
entitled “Adding corollary discharge to motor computations for action
and perception.�?"

http://mcgovern.mit.edu/news/videos/bob-wurtz-2013-mcgovern-institute-symposium/

"But you know, when you do physiology, you answer the questions that you ask."

M

--
Richard S. Marken, Ph.D.
Author of Doing Research on Purpose.
Now available from Amazon or Barnes & Noble

[From Bruce Abbott (2014.12.31.1000 EST)]

Rick Marken (2014.12.30.1040) --

MK (2014.12.29.1430 CET)--

MK: Corollary discharges, visual stability and 'eye location' in primates.
The pay-off starts just before the 18 minute mark, but you probably
want to watch the whole thing if the topic is your thing.

RM: It's not quite my thing but I know Bill Powers did some modeling in this area (saccadic image stabilization). I don't think he ever published anything on it or discussed it on the net but there is surely some of his work on this in the archives. He discussed it with me back when we first met -- so the works was probably done in the late 1970s.

MK: Intro by Bizzi.

RM: Ah, so that's Bizzi. He did the work on deafferented monkeys, right? I think he still believes that he has shown that behavior is the control of output; that sensory feedback is not necessary for behavior. Shows how prominent you can become if you just go with the flow and do work that purports to show that behavior is computed output, not controlled input.

BA: Yes, Bizzi is one of the researchers who did work on deafferented monkeys (Taub is another). However, he's a proponent of a modified version of the EP hypothesis, called the "alpha" model to distinguish it from Feldman's "lambda" model. Like Feldman's version, it does not rely on inverse kinematics or inverse dynamics to compute the neural signals that generate movement around a joint. In that sense it's closer to Bill Powers' vision than it is to the plan-compute-execute models that some others have proposed.

Bruce

[From Rick Marken (2014.12.31.0930)]

Bruce Abbott (2014.12.31.1000 EST)

BA: Yes, Bizzi is one of the researchers who did work on deafferented monkeys (Taub is another). However, he's a proponent of a modified version of the EP hypothesis, called the "alpha" model to distinguish it from Feldman's "lambda" model. Like Feldman's version, it does not rely on inverse kinematics or inverse dynamics to compute the neural signals that generate movement around a joint. In that sense it's closer to Bill Powers' vision than it is to the plan-compute-execute models that some others have proposed.

RM: I would say that the more correct relationship is that Bizzi and
Feldman's versions of the EP hypothesis and all versions of the
plan-compute-execute model are equally (and infinitely) distant from
Powers' model, just in a different directions. If you ain't
controlling input, you ain't doing PCT (and, I might add, you ain't
able to behave -- produce consistent, pre-selected results, ie.
control -- in a disturbance prone world).

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken, Ph.D.
Author of Doing Research on Purpose.
Now available from Amazon or Barnes & Noble