[From Rick Marken (2008.09.08.2230)]
Could someone who is considering voting for McCain/Palin please tell
me why you feel this way? Maybe if I can see it your way I can stop
being depressed. Or scared.
Let's talk. I promise not to argue. I just want to try to understand
your point of view.
Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
[From Dick Robertson.2008.09.09.10.41CDT]
A great approach Rick. Are you only posting this on CSGnet? This seems like the kind of question you might well send to some conservative sites or blogs.
Best,
Dick R
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Marken rsmarken@GMAIL.COM
Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008 12:32 am
Subject: Why??
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
[From Rick Marken (2008.09.08.2230)]
Could someone who is considering voting for McCain/Palin please tell
me why you feel this way? Maybe if I can see it your way I can stop
being depressed. Or scared.Let’s talk. I promise not to argue. I just want to try to understand
your point of view.Best
Rick
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
Rick,
I'm not your McCain/Palin voter, but for some insight I suggest
24001.html
--look especially at the discussion of how the Republicans changed the
"frame" of discourse. Some excerpts:
"...people think in "frames" or worldviews through which all ideas and
emotions are processed. Liberals tend to have a more nurturing worldview
- and, I'd add, a more logical one; we're more left-brained.
Conservatives, on the other hand, tend to have a more rigid, rule-based,
punitive worldview - what Lakoff calls a "strict father" frame - but,
I'll add, also a more emotional, right-brained one, with the primary
emotion being fear: the fear of getting in trouble when daddy gets home,
or the corresponding ecstasy when he does and he's not mad."
"Until last night, the Republican myth was, `It's a scary world, Obama's
young and inexperienced, and McCain is the tough father figure who will
care for you.' And Obama's frame was, `This place you're at now is scary
bad. You need to get away. McCain wants to keep you here, but I'll lead
you to safety.' And Obama was winning in that `battle of frames.'"
"Wednesday night, though, the Republican Party unexpectedly changed
frames - and did so brilliantly. The agent of change was Sarah Palin,
who suddenly has become the most dangerous person to the progressive
agenda since Ronald Reagan himself. Through Palin, the frame has now
become, `The government doesn't understand you or like you. That's why
it's hurting you so badly. Come to Tough Hockey Mommy and I'll make them
go away.'"
This is about control according to emotionally grounded reference
perceptions of how to stay safe. The assurance of being right is
preferred to the uncertainty of finding out the truth. That certainty of
rightness--or more truly the fear that it conceals--justifies any means.
Details in http://preview.tinyurl.com/6mcup2
Test it.
/Bruce Nevin
-----Original Message-----
From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)
[mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard Marken
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:31 AM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Subject: Why??[From Rick Marken (2008.09.08.2230)]
Could someone who is considering voting for McCain/Palin
please tell me why you feel this way? Maybe if I can see it
your way I can stop being depressed. Or scared.Let's talk. I promise not to argue. I just want to try to
understand your point of view.Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
[From Rick Marken (2008.09.09.1040)]
Dick Robertson (2008.09.09.10.41CDT)
A great approach Rick. Are you only posting this on CSGnet? This seems like
the kind of question you might well send to some conservative sites or
blogs.Best,
Dick R
Thanks, Dick. I might post it to some conservative sites. But I'm more
interested in getting a response on CSGNet. Just a more comfortable
forum. Also, I want to see if those in CSG who are for McCain/Palin
will even admit it.
Best
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Marken <rsmarken@GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008 12:32 am
Subject: Why??
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU[From Rick Marken (2008.09.08.2230)]
Could someone who is considering voting for McCain/Palin please tell
me why you feel this way? Maybe if I can see it your way I can stop
being depressed. Or scared.Let's talk. I promise not to argue. I just want to try to understand
your point of view.Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
[From Rick Marken (2008.09.09.1042)]
Rick,
I'm not your McCain/Palin voter, but for some insight I suggest
Hi Bruce
Thanks, but I really just want to hear from the people who are
actually planning to vote for the ticket. I want to do what Bill
suggested and try to find out what why they feel that way in the hopes
that possibly we may be able to find common ground.
Best
Rick
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Bruce Nevin (bnevin) <bnevin@cisco.com> wrote:
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
From Jim Wuwert 2008.09.09.1431
Rick,
I have not been reading all of your posts, but your question pulled me out to respond to your post. I have not publicly come out as voting for McCain/Palin, but I am strongly leaning that way.
Bruce posted a comment earlier that “liberals are more nuturing and more logical.” I don’t think anyone could draw that conclusion about every liberal. Perhaps they have those tendencies. There is data out there that suggests that conservatives are more nuturing and giving and logical than liberals. Obama gave ?5%? of his income away over the past several years as oppose to McCain who gave about ?10%? My numbers are not exact, but McCain gave more from his personal income than Obama and it was significant.
As a conservative, I believe in less government. Let people work out the problems with little government influence. Individual people are better at accountability than the government in most cases. I feel that McCain/ Palin will reduce taxes and bring closure to the Iraq debacle or at least move us in that direction. I am a bigger fan of Palin than McCain. Palin is the sole reason I will most likely vote for them. I sense that they care about me and I can identify with them. I feel like they want me to take responsibility for my actions, but also give to others to help those that cannot help themselves.
I am a big proponent of tithing 10% of your income. It’s a faith thing for me. I believe that 10% is my way of helping those that cannot help themselves.
I have to run right now. I will try to write more when I have more time. I think your approach is asking your initial question is much more productive than an argument. I always enjoy hearing the liberal point of view. It makes me think more deeply.
-----“Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)” CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU wrote: -----
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
From: Richard Marken rsmarken@GMAIL.COM
Sent by: “Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)” CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Date: 09/09/2008 01:30AM
Subject: Why??[From Rick Marken (2008.09.08.2230)]
Could someone who is considering voting for McCain/Palin please tell
me why you feel this way? Maybe if I can see it your way I can stop
being depressed. Or scared.Let’s talk. I promise not to argue. I just want to try to understand
your point of view.Best
Rick
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
All e-mail correspondence to and from this address
is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law,
which may result in monitoring and disclosure to
third parties, including law enforcement.
AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY/AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER
[From Rick Marken (2008.09.09.1230)]
From Jim Wuwert 2008.09.09.1431
Rick,
I have not been reading all of your posts, but your question pulled me out
to respond to your post. I have not publicly come out as voting for
McCain/Palin, but I am strongly leaning that way.Bruce posted a comment earlier that "liberals are more nuturing and more
logical." I don't think anyone could draw that conclusion about every
liberal. Perhaps they have those tendencies. There is data out there that
suggests that conservatives are more nuturing and giving and logical than
liberals. Obama gave ?5%? of his income away over the past several years as
oppose to McCain who gave about ?10%? My numbers are not exact, but McCain
gave more from his personal income than Obama and it was significant.
OK, so one reason you prefer McCain is because he gave more to
charity? Is that right?
As a conservative, I believe in less government. Let people work out the
problems with little government influence. Individual people are better at
accountability than the government in most cases. I feel that McCain/ Palin
will reduce taxes and bring closure to the Iraq debacle or at least move us
in that direction.
OK, so another reason is that they share your philosophy of government
and will stop the Iraq "debacle". Does it matter to you at all that
both McCain and Palin favored the "debacle" from the start?
I am a bigger fan of Palin than McCain. Palin is the sole
reason I will most likely vote for them. I sense that they care about me and
I can identify with them. I feel like they want me to take responsibility
for my actions, but also give to others to help those that cannot help
themselves.
OK. So do you care at all about social level variables? Do you care
about the size of the deficit? The debt? Rates of child poverty?
Abortion rates? Growth rate? Stock market growth? Jobs growth?
Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
Rick,
Lakoff has gone to a great deal of trouble to make just such inquiries
and has indicated specific means for finding common ground which are
eminently Testable, and consistent with my own experience.
You might find out something different by soliciting responses on
CSG-net. Or your preference to ignore those findings might suggest that
you're controlling something about those conversations aside from
finding out what makes socalled conservatives tick. ("Aside from" can
mean "in addition to" as well as "instead of.")
/Bruce Nevin
-----Original Message-----
From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)
[mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard Marken
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:43 PM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Subject: Re: Why??[From Rick Marken (2008.09.09.1042)]
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Bruce Nevin (bnevin) > <bnevin@cisco.com> wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I'm not your McCain/Palin voter, but for some insight I suggestHi Bruce
Thanks, but I really just want to hear from the people who
are actually planning to vote for the ticket. I want to do
what Bill suggested and try to find out what why they feel
that way in the hopes that possibly we may be able to find
common ground.Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
[from Tracy B. Harms (2008-09-09 13:10 Pacific)]
Bruce Nevin,
You directed us to an article by Bellows where he attributes the
following ideas to George Lakoff:
"... we're more left-brained. Conservatives, on the other hand, tend
to have a more right-brained [worldview]"
And you suggested, "Test it."
Got any ideas as to where and how the scalpels, needles, wires and
probes ought to be applied in order to test brains for this alleged
relationship between worldviews and hemispheres?
I don't have much patience at this point for the way "right-brain" and
"left-brain" get used to dress up opinions as science.
Tracy
From Jim Wuwert 2008.09.09.1552EST
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
From: Richard Marken rsmarken@GMAIL.COM
Sent by: “Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)” CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Date: 09/09/2008 03:30PM
Subject: Re: Why??[From Rick Marken (2008.09.09.1230)]
From Jim Wuwert 2008.09.09.1431
Rick,
OK, so one reason you prefer McCain is because he gave more to
charity? Is that right?
My perception is that he actually follows through on giving to others versus Obama who seems to just talk about its importance.
OK, so another reason is that they share your philosophy of government
and will stop the Iraq “debacle”. Does it matter to you at all that
both McCain and Palin favored the “debacle” from the start?
I thought engaging in the battle to begin with was the right thing to do. I think Bush was unprepared with a good exit strategy. Because of that it will be a messy exit because plans were not laid out initially.
OK. So do you care at all about social level variables? Do you care
about the size of the deficit? The debt?
I do care about those things. I think the solution is less government which would help eliminate the deficit. If we cut back government services we will have money to pay down the debt and more accountability for government.I think McCain/Palin will do this.
Rates of child poverty?
Considering I work with child poverty everyday–I do care about it. I also accept that some people choose to live in poverty and want to stay there. I am okay with that. However, I think wealth is a better lifestyle. The love of wealth is the root of all evil. I think what I can do is listen to those in poverty, help them find opportunities to get out of it (if that is what they want), and follow through on commitments I make to them. I think private individuals do a better job in their communities to help poverty rates than the government. I am basing that on my own community. My perception of McCain is that he will help make this happen by reducing taxes and government pork barrell.
Abortion rates?
I think we know where Palin is on this one.
Yes, I care about it. I am unfamiliar with the stats on this. Morally, I think it should be outlawed because I view it as murder. It’s black and white to me. There are so many people in this country who want to adopt. Abortion is something that destroys society. That unborn child however inconvenient could hold the idea that allows us to find a cure for cancer. Let’s do our best to preserve an innocent life. I don’t think legalizing that helps us preserve life or decrease the abortion rates. I feel like if it remains legal I am contributing to the murder of innocent children. It’s an innocent life.
Growth rate? Stock market growth? Jobs growth?
*I care about all of these things. Again, I think McCain/Palin will cut taxes and put money back into the hands of individuals. I think they will save it in the stock market, start businesses which will increase jobs. I think this basic philosophy will help us. I think as (educated folk-and I include myself in that) we tend to overanalyze things with data instead of getting back to simplicity. In rare instances I think we need government regulation because of corruption or national security. Whatever happen to community culture where people hung out together, played games on the front lawn, told stories, and laughed. Nowadays, we go to a computer to do that, not that that isn’t fun. It is. *
But, Where is the community pride? Where is our country pride? This country isn’t perfect but you know what it is pretty darn good. Perhaps we can build around our strengths and work from there rather than focusing our time and energy on what is wrong or bad. The bad will always be there because we are not perfect. Let’s focus on the good and make it better. Let’s do it together as liberals and conservatives, but let’s do it in our communities with little government intervention.
I feel like John McCain and Sarah Palin will help facillitate that. They are change. I mean, can you believe it. We may have a lady vice-president who I think believes in family. I think Palin is authentic and real. Much more so than Obama or Biden.
Best
Rick
–
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
All e-mail correspondence to and from this address
is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law,
which may result in monitoring and disclosure to
third parties, including law enforcement.
AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY/AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER
From Jim Wuwert 2008.09.09.1431 [responding to Rick]
Bruce posted a comment earlier that “liberals are more nuturing and
more logical.” I don’t think anyone could draw that conclusion about
every liberal.
That was a quotation from a blog, and my comments referred to it.
The blogger was greatly simplifying. Few if any are all one extreme or the other, and individuals control these principles differently in different departments of life (family, work environment, religion, etc.). See the analysis in Moral Politics for the analysis of the spectrum. More specifically (and more usefully), you can make contact in some department of life where a person controls in accord with more nurturing principles, establish common ground there, and build bridges from there to political decisions. Instructive examples are given.
Perhaps they have those tendencies. There is data out
there that suggests that conservatives are more nuturing and giving
and logical than liberals. Obama gave ?5%? of his income away over the
past several years as oppose to McCain who gave about ?10%? My numbers
are not exact, but McCain gave more from his personal income than Obama and it was significant.
Formal charity could be such an area for McCain (as distinct for spontaneous generosity or working as a mere “community organizer”). Or it could be a religious principle to tithe 10%. Or it could be that at his and Cindy’s level of income his accountant says give that much. Or some combination, e.g. the second gives moral justification to the third.
I’m not going to be able to keep up, but I don’t think that matters to your conversation. Just wanted to clear that up.
/BN
Tracy,
Bellows simplified and he added his own touch (e.g. left/right brain
jargon has no part in Lakoff's work and Bellows acknowledges that this
is his own understanding). Go to the source.
It goes without saying on this list that Testing in PCT rarely if ever
involves scalpels, needles, wires, and probes.
/BN
-----Original Message-----
From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)
[mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU] On Behalf Of Tracy Harms
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 4:11 PM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Subject: Re: Why??[from Tracy B. Harms (2008-09-09 13:10 Pacific)]
Bruce Nevin,
You directed us to an article by Bellows where he attributes
the following ideas to George Lakoff:
"... we're more left-brained. Conservatives, on the other
hand, tend to have a more right-brained [worldview]"And you suggested, "Test it."
Got any ideas as to where and how the scalpels, needles,
wires and probes ought to be applied in order to test brains
for this alleged relationship between worldviews and hemispheres?I don't have much patience at this point for the way
"right-brain" and "left-brain" get used to dress up opinions
as science.Tracy
[from Tracy B. Harms (2008-09-09 13:50 Pacific)]
Bruce,
I almost noted, in my previous message, that I wasn't going to hold
what Bellows wrote against Lakoff. What I've read of Lakoff I've
liked, and those writings haven't involved the particular irritant
that I was reacting against here.
Yes, PCT testing isn't likely to involve poking at brain tissue.
That's exactly why I was annoyed at the implication that psychology,
to count as a science, must entail that sort of thing. If any group
knows how wrong that is, it's the membership of CSGnet.
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Bruce Nevin (bnevin) <bnevin@cisco.com> wrote:
Tracy,
Bellows simplified and he added his own touch (e.g. left/right brain
jargon has no part in Lakoff's work and Bellows acknowledges that this
is his own understanding). Go to the source.It goes without saying on this list that Testing in PCT rarely if ever
involves scalpels, needles, wires, and probes./BN
-----Original Message-----
From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)
[mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU] On Behalf Of Tracy Harms
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 4:11 PM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Subject: Re: Why??[from Tracy B. Harms (2008-09-09 13:10 Pacific)]
Bruce Nevin,
You directed us to an article by Bellows where he attributes
the following ideas to George Lakoff:
"... we're more left-brained. Conservatives, on the other
hand, tend to have a more right-brained [worldview]"And you suggested, "Test it."
Got any ideas as to where and how the scalpels, needles,
wires and probes ought to be applied in order to test brains
for this alleged relationship between worldviews and hemispheres?I don't have much patience at this point for the way
"right-brain" and "left-brain" get used to dress up opinions
as science.Tracy
[from Tracy B. Harms (2008-09-09 13:50 Pacific)]
Bruce,
Yes, PCT testing isn't likely to involve poking at brain tissue.
That's exactly why I was annoyed at the implication that
psychology, to count as a science, must entail that sort of
thing. If any group knows how wrong that is, it's the
membership of CSGnet.
Somebody must have brought it up earlier. I didn't know because I
haven't been reading everything.
Off to the races again ...
/BN
[From Dick Robertson,2008.09.09.2135CDT]
Rick,
I think I perceive a bias in the phrasing of the questions you are asking Jim. If there is, does it meet with your goal of getting the freest kind of response from those favoring the Republican ticket?
Best,
Dick R
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Marken rsmarken@GMAIL.COM
Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: Why??
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
[From Rick Marken (2008.09.09.1230)]
From Jim Wuwert 2008.09.09.1431
Rick,
I have not been reading all of your posts, but your question
pulled me out
to respond to your post. I have not publicly come out as
voting for
McCain/Palin, but I am strongly leaning that way.Bruce posted a comment earlier that “liberals are more
nuturing and more
logical.” I don’t think anyone could draw that conclusion
about every
liberal. Perhaps they have those tendencies. There is data out
there that
suggests that conservatives are more nuturing and giving and
logical than
liberals. Obama gave ?5%? of his income away over the past
several years as
oppose to McCain who gave about ?10%? My numbers are not
exact, but McCain
gave more from his personal income than Obama and it was
significant.
OK, so one reason you prefer McCain is because he gave more to
charity? Is that right?As a conservative, I believe in less government. Let people
work out the
problems with little government influence. Individual people
are better at
accountability than the government in most cases. I feel that
McCain/ Palin
will reduce taxes and bring closure to the Iraq debacle or at
least move us
in that direction.OK, so another reason is that they share your philosophy of government
and will stop the Iraq “debacle”. Does it matter to you at all that
both McCain and Palin favored the “debacle” from the start?I am a bigger fan of Palin than McCain. Palin is the sole
reason I will most likely vote for them. I sense that they
care about me and
I can identify with them. I feel like they want me to take
for my actions, but also give to others to help
those that cannot help
themselves.OK. So do you care at all about social level variables? Do you care
about the size of the deficit? The debt? Rates of child poverty?
Abortion rates? Growth rate? Stock market growth? Jobs growth?Best
Rick
–
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
[from Tracy B. Harms (2008-09-09 20:32 Pacific)]
Bruce,
Well, now that I've actually read the piece by M. S. Bellows, Jr. I
must thank you for bringing it to my attention, Bruce. It showed me
that over the past few days I'd been swayed away from Obama by the
remarks I'd heard quoted with the mnemonic word "bitter" in it. Since
Bellows reproduced Obama's remark in its fuller context, along with a
subsequent response, my impression has been simply reversed. It's
irritating to feel that I was "had" in this particular, but not so
irritating as it would be to make the correction much later.
There are various aspects of Bellows take that I don't like,
particularly the "we apply reason; they act on emotion" cliche that
I've seen come from conservative circles even more often. Still, he
not only noticed that the Republicans turned the balance of the race
sharply in their direction with the nomination of Palin, he gave a
coherent, thought-provoking proposition as to how to make sense of the
specifics of how that worked. So, thanks again.
Tracy
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Bruce Nevin (bnevin) <bnevin@cisco.com> wrote:
Rick,
I'm not your McCain/Palin voter, but for some insight I suggest
HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost
24001.html
--look especially at the discussion of how the Republicans changed the
"frame" of discourse.
[From Rick Marken (2008.09.10.2040)]
Dick Robertson (2008.09.09.2135CDT)
Rick,
I think I perceive a bias in the phrasing of the questions you are asking
Jim. If there is, does it meet with your goal of getting the freest kind of
response from those favoring the Republican ticket?
Maybe you could take over? I've found out pretty much what I expected
already and I don't even know where this is going. The questions I
asked were aimed at finding out what he actually likes about
McCain/Palin and why he likes those things. Now I know; I think his
reasons are pretty typical. I don't see the bias in my questions but
maybe you could give me an example of un unbiased phrasing of one or
another of them. I'm too sick to continue; I'll just go continue the
MOL with Bill. I gotta get up a level, and fast;-)
Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
[From Dick Robertson, 2008.09.12.1715CDT]
Dick Robertson (2008.09.09.2135CDT)
Rick, I think I perceive a bias in the phrasing of the questions you
are asking Jim.Maybe you could take over? I’ve found out pretty much what I expected
already and I don’t even know where this is going. The questions I
asked were aimed at finding out what he actually likes about
McCain/Palin and why he likes those things. Now I know; I think his
reasons are pretty typical. I don’t see the bias in my questions but
maybe you could give me an example of un unbiased phrasing of
one or another of them.
Richard S. Marken PhD
OK, I note that Jim replied to you without complaining about sensing any bias, so I guess my reservations were unfounded, but, just to give an example lit me cite:
OK. So do you care at all about social level variables? Do you care
about the size of the deficit? The debt? Rates of child poverty?
Abortion rates? Growth rate? Stock market growth? Jobs growth?
I was reacting to the phrasing: Do you care? That carries a slight innuendo of “Do you really care?”
But as I’ve already said, it didn’t stear Jim away from you telling you what you were asking.
But now let me “take over” as you suggest.
Jim, this is to you. What would make you change your mind and give your vote to Obama/Biden, instead of McCain/Palin?
Best,
Dick R
OK. So do you care at all about social level variables? Do you care
about the size of the deficit? The debt?
I do care about those things. I think the solution is less government which would help eliminate the deficit. If we cut back government services we will have money to pay down the debt and more accountability for government.I think McCain/Palin will do this.
Rates of child poverty?
Considering I work with child poverty everyday–I do care about it. I also accept that some people choose to live in poverty and want to stay there. I am okay with that. However, I think wealth is a better lifestyle. The love of wealth is the root of all evil. I think what I can do is listen to those in poverty, help them find opportunities to get out of it (if that is what they want), and follow through on commitments I make to them. I think private individuals do a better job in their communities to help poverty rates than the government. I am basing that on my own community. My perception of McCain is that he will help make this happen by reducing taxes and government pork barrell.
Abortion rates?
I think we know where Palin is on this one.
Yes, I care about it. I am unfamiliar with the stats on this. Morally, I think it should be outlawed because I view it as murder. It’s black and white to me. There are so many people in this country who want to adopt. Abortion is something that destroys society. That unborn child however inconvenient could hold the idea that allows us to find a cure for cancer. Let’s do our best to preserve an innocent life. I don’t think legalizing that helps us preserve life or decrease the abortion rates. I feel like if it remains legal I am contributing to the murder of innocent children. It’s an innocent life.
Growth rate? Stock market growth? Jobs growth?
*I care about all of these things. Again, I think McCain/Palin will cut taxes and put money back into the hands of individuals. I think they will save it in the stock market, start businesses which will increase jobs. I think this basic philosophy will help us. I think as (educated folk-and I include myself in that) we tend to overanalyze things with data instead of getting back to simplicity. In rare instances I think we need government regulation because of corruption or national security. Whatever happen to community culture where people hung out together, played games on the front lawn, told stories, and laughed. Nowadays, we go to a computer to do that, not that that isn’t fun. It is. *
But, Where is the community pride? Where is our country pride? This country isn’t perfect but you know what it is pretty darn good. Perhaps we can build around our strengths and work from there rather than focusing our time and energy on what is wrong or bad. The bad will always be there because we are not perfect. Let’s focus on the good and make it better. Let’s do it together as liberals and conservatives, but let’s do it in our communities with little government intervention.
I feel like John McCain and Sarah Palin will help facillitate that. They are change. I mean, can you believe it. We may have a lady vice-president who I think believes in family. I think Palin is authentic and real. Much more so than Obama or Biden.
Best
Rick
[From Rick Marken (2008.09.12.1520)]
Dick Robertson, 2008.09.12.1715CDT]
But now let me "take over" as you suggest.
Jim, this is to you. What would make you change your mind and give your
vote to Obama/Biden, instead of McCain/Palin?
Great question. It's now in your hands. I look forward to seeing Jim's
answer. I I'm going to ask my right wing friends (OK, friend) the
same thing.
Best
Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
From Jim Wuwert 2008.09.13.1850
[From Dick Robertson, 2008.09.12.1715CDT]
OK, I note that Jim replied to you without complaining about sensing any bias, so I guess my reservations were unfounded, but, just to give an example lit me cite:
I was reacting to the phrasing: Do you care? That carries a slight innuendo of “Do you really care?”
Honestyly, initially the wording hit me that way, but I chose to overlook it. I felt that if I reacted to it that it would not add any value to this discussion.
But as I’ve already said, it didn’t stear Jim away from you telling you what you were asking.
But now let me “take over” as you suggest.
Jim, this is to you. What would make you change your mind and give your vote to Obama/Biden, instead of McCain/Palin?
*I mentioned in my previous email the reasons why I am voting for McCain/Palin. If in the next 6 weeks I perceive Obama/Biden to better match my picture of what the next president should be, then I would change my vote to Obama/Biden. Right now, I feel that Obama/Biden does not match my picture of president of the U.S. McCain/Palin are more closely aligned with my picture right now. *
Best,
Dick R
OK. So do you care at all about social level variables? Do you care
about the size of the deficit? The debt?
I do care about those things. I think the solution is less government which would help eliminate the deficit. If we cut back government services we will have money to pay down the debt and more accountability for government.I think McCain/Palin will do this.
Rates of child poverty?
Considering I work with child poverty everyday–I do care about it. I also accept that some people choose to live in poverty and want to stay there. I am okay with that. However, I think wealth is a better lifestyle. The love of wealth is the root of all evil. I think what I can do is listen to those in poverty, help them find opportunities to get out of it (if that is what they want), and follow through on commitments I make to them. I think private individuals do a better job in their communities to help poverty rates than the government. I am basing that on my own community. My perception of McCain is that he will help make this happen by reducing taxes and government pork barrell.
Abortion rates?
I think we know where Palin is on this one.
Yes, I care about it. I am unfamiliar with the stats on this. Morally, I think it should be outlawed because I view it as murder. It’s black and white to me. There are so many people in this country who want to adopt. Abortion is something that destroys society. That unborn child however inconvenient could hold the idea that allows us to find a cure for cancer. Let’s do our best to preserve an innocent life. I don’t think legalizing that helps us preserve life or decrease the abortion rates. I feel like if it remains legal I am contributing to the murder of innocent children. It’s an innocent life.
Growth rate? Stock market growth? Jobs growth?
*I care about all of these things. Again, I think McCain/Palin will cut taxes and put money back into the hands of individuals. I think they will save it in the stock market, start businesses which will increase jobs. I think this basic philosophy will help us. I think as (educated folk-and I include myself in that) we tend to overanalyze things with data instead of getting back to simplicity. In rare instances I think we need government regulation because of corruption or national security. Whatever happen to community culture where people hung out together, played games on the front lawn, told stories, and laughed. Nowadays, we go to a computer to do that, not that that isn’t fun. It is. *
But, Where is the community pride? Where is our country pride? This country isn’t perfect but you know what it is pretty darn good. Perhaps we can build around our strengths and work from there rather than focusing our time and energy on what is wrong or bad. The bad will always be there because we are not perfect. Let’s focus on the good and make it better. Let’s do it together as liberals and conservatives, but let’s do it in our communities with little government intervention.
I feel like John McCain and Sarah Palin will help facillitate that. They are change. I mean, can you believe it. We may have a lady vice-president who I think believes in family. I think Palin is authentic and real. Much more so than Obama or Biden.
Best
Rick
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